Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Last week someone made a comment about more passing in non-winged cars.

As a newcomer to sprints (only seen winged), I was curious if someone could elaborate on this.... is it true? why? opinions?

Where do they race non-winged sprints, by the way?

Member of this message board since 1997

Non-wing race primarily in Indiana (both USAC sanction and track sanctioned) California VRA (360 at Ventura) USAC 360 (central CA), 410 CRA/USAC primarily at Perris, CA and ASCS 360 non winged in AZ. I am sure there are a few other areas or track that run a race or two with Non-wings. USAC races in several states from Iowa, CA, Las Vegas, Neveda, Florida, Ohio, PA and probably some others that I am missing.

Non-wing and WIng fans are very rabid about there style of racing. SOme like the ultra fast wing cars, and others like the side by side action of non-wing cars.

I grew up watching non-wing racing in So Cal, so that is what I prefer. But I have seen lots of passing in both winged and non-winged sprint cars. To me, it seems more likely you will see passing in heat race and mains at a non-wing race because of their formats. For example, at a CRA/USAC non winged show, they invert 8 cars in the heat races, and 8 cars in the main. I believe the WOO format is 4 car inverts in heat races. Its much tougher to see passing when all they do is put 4 cars inverted in a race. The cars are too evenly matched to see much passing. With 8 cars (winged or nonwing) inverted , you are much more likely to see passing. In main events, I have seen drivers starting dead last against some of the best drivers in the country and win the main in both winged and non-winged.

The best format in all of racing is the trophy cup for winged 360 sprinter in Tulare ca. They invert all the cars in the heat races on Saturday and Invert all the cars for the main. The three years I have been there, the overall winner and the individual winner have come from the last two or 3 rows of the race. Last year, the winner started dead last racing the agains some of the best winged drivers in the country including guys like Sammy Swindell, Pittman, Stewart, Kaeding.

Its a loaded question which is better or has more passing. Depends who u ask. For me, I know which tracks, organizations and formats that will have the most passing. My favorite track is ventura for 360 sprints, they have pea picks so you know there will be passing during the eventing. I have been to WOO races, USAC non wing races and seen very little passing during the evening. And other nights, all the races including heat races were barnburners.

Many times your local short tracks will have better racing than the big National Racing organizations like WOO or USAC. They have very tough fields with superior equipment and drivers, so it makes passing tougher if everyone is good. At a local track, the quality of equipment may vary and they have better formats sometimes.

Just go to as many races as you can winged and non winged, late models, National (big stars) or local races and you can tell very quickly which type of racing you enjoy. For me, I generally prefer non-wing local racing, but I also really enjoy WOO or 360 winged racing at one particular track. And occasionally you might find me at a paved track watching stock cars or sprint cars ont he black top. Variety is the spice of life for me, while others prefer to watch only one type of car and organization like WOO or USAC.

Just have fun and support your local short track.

Welcome to the Sprint Car world! The comment made last week was obviously someones opinion, and probably with a little bias mixed in. You will find great racing/passing in both types, it usually depends on track prep more than anything. (IMO) We traditional (nonwing) sprint car fans LOVE to say the racing is better w/o a wing. The modified (wing) sprint car fans love to disagree. I hope it's all fun and games between the two, it is for me. I have seen BOTH have fantastic races, so I support both when I can, my favorite are non-wings. You'll find most non-wings in the Mid-America ares, but they are everywhere. Where do you live?

Sean,

Tucson

!!SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL TRACKS!!
!!Get Well Shane!! 

Welcome to the club! For your sake, as a new fan, I hope this thread doesn't get out of hand.

First, the easy question. Wingless strongholds are Indiana and Southern Cal/Arizona. There is a little bit in Ohio and other places are having occasional wingless shows now as well. USAC takes their tours out of the "home" areas a few times a year, and there is also the Tour'N'Topless series that is part of ASCS (410s, though). It's getting easier to find a wingless show in recent times.

Now, the hard question. The idea of "better racing" is all in the eye of the beholder. I think you can see plenty of passing in both types of sprints, but my opinion is that it has more to do with track size or track configuration rather than having wings or not. If you're talking a 1/2 mile, you're likely to see more passing with wingless cars. Shorter tracks are really a toss up. The slower corner speeds in the wingless cars lend to more side by side racing, but you can still see a snoozer of a race just like you can with winged cars.

Given that you're still pretty new to the sport, keep your mind open and at least attempt to see a wingless show. Then make up your own mind. I prefer wingless cars, but I see more winged racing and there are still some great shows with the roof on.

**Edit - Wow, 4 posts in 8 minutes saying the same general thing!**

Signature here.

You're in the Denver area right? It's getting chilly up there fast, so why don't you come on down to the Western World in Tucson AZ, and see them both run in a 3 day show and decide for yourself..http://usadirttrack.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1288989494&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&

Personally it's not even close as far as I'm concerned , not if it's action, and close wheel to wheel racing you're looking for.. it's non-wing: and I'm speaking from a lifetime (many years LOL) of experience. Here's the clip of the week, and over on the left of the opening page is more clips. Indiana has more non wing races than any state, but Southern Cali and AZ have always been non wing traditional car hotbeds..enjoy.http://www.racewayvideo.com/

Kenny

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFaAFoNzP6Q&feature=autofb nothing needs to be said after this!

seen great racing in both. more passing is often more of a result of format and where the best drivers of the night start. example Wed and Thurs of knoxville has lots of passing, regular WOO show not so much, USAC non wing to often has the great 5 or 6 starting farther back because of invert also many times the cars are not near as equal. wings are definately much faster lap times and top speed, non wing they can through the cars around because sometime in the corner they got to scrub the speed off, I prefer wings as to me racing is about going fast as possible

This is one reason why we love the traditional cars.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

pulling the front wheel, looks like a modified, lol

When you pull both front wheels up and steer it with the gas in a non wing sprinter, it's not chassis flex, it's muscle flex, and reflex.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Go see any non-wing race at Kokomo, Indiana. Good chance you will see a great race on this small 1/4 mile track. The support classes do a good job too.

Later, JERSEY

230+ tracks visited

2010-30,(2011)16,(2012)17,

(2013)21races-W.Gr(x2),Bridgeport(x2)/N Egypt(x2),Port 

Royal,Susky,Plymouth,Winchester,

Kokomo,Wall,GraysHar(x2)Gr.View 

SouthSound,Wash.,Willamette,Cot.Grove,

Southside,Langley VA,Orange Co.NY

I'm a Hoosier by birth, but I'm sorry to say I've never had a chance to go back as a adult to see those tracks, but I'd sure like to. My dad ran Indiana, Ohio, and Penn after the war, but we moved to Torrance Cali when I was little. At least it was a hot bed of racing, and it's still non wing county today. JC Agajanian used to pick up our garbage to feed his pigs, and then used the $$ to build Ascot, and a legend, both his, and the tracks.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

I love this...He's a Aussie getting the hang of it down under..Turn it UP!

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Thanks for all the input. I'm a sub teacher, its lunch now, unfortunately the school blocks Youtube. But if the clips you're citing are from Kokomo, I saw them last nite at the Williams Grove website. Hellacious competition, I liked it!

Yes, I live in Denver. Tucson is a bit far; I was thinking about going to Las Cruces this coming weekend till I discovered its on the Mexican border, as far away as Kansas City (10+ hr. drive)

Every summer I drive back East to visit dear ole Mom since my Dad passed away, & thats when I hit the tracks (Pennsylvania so far)

After watching that video, I'm gonna try to hit Kokomo on the way back next summer, as well as Knoxville.

I like the winged cars for their insane acceleration, but competition really makes it exciting. If I was only interested in pure speed, I could go to the drags; I used to like that back in the day of "run watcha brung", mucho classes & homebuilt interesting cars, but modern professionally built "rocket sleds" bore me to tears.

Hope to see some of y'all at the tracks