Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I think it's time to tweak WoO racing a little more , really haven't been an advocate of rule changes but , something has to be done , like :

NO FUEL STOPS , GO BACK TO OLDER STYLE FUEL TANKS

TOO MUCH WINNING FROM THE POLE OR FIRST TWO ROWS

OPEN TIRE RULE

CHANGE THE ANNOUNCING FORMAT AND MUSIC

COST CONTAINMENT OF CARS

LISTEN MORE TO FANS , RATHER THEN YOUR MARKETING TEAM

I stopped going to WoO shows at Devils Bowl a long time ago. Of course, they haven't run Devils Bowl in years, but I stopped going long before that happened. They were up to $30 admission for a race. Car counts had dropped into the 20's because of no support from local cars. The biggest factor for me was the format and the lack of competition. The heat races were all boring single file freight trains with little or no passing. The winner of the feature usually started on the front row and led all 30 laps and was rarely challenged. The only hope for excitement was if someone was close to the leader when he caught lapped traffic. Once in awhile you would see a good WoO feature, but eventually I decided it wasn't worth the gamble. As far as I was concerned, I was spending $30 to go the races and wasn't really seeing any racing!

I would look at it this way. If the WoO was really about racing and competition, then you wouldn't have had one guy win 20 championships would you?

So, vote with your wallet......but the WoO obviously has something - they keep getting races scheduled every year!

Chuck.....

I like WoO races but there are definitely a couple things that need to be tweaked:

1) The heat races are pretty much meaningless with the current format. No need to race when all the eggs are in the time trial basket. Thats why the heats usually are follow the leader and boring as he!!. Why race when u just need to finish 6th?

2) B-Mains; No car that has to come through the B should start the A ahead of a car that raced in. thats just wrong.

What is the solution? I don't know. I think Knoxville has an inside track with their format. Time and passing points added together. Doesn't put too much emphasis on one over the other and they both mean something.....

305's are the herpes of sprint cars

Bingo! The heats are meaningless. I think every position should count, should be passing points, should be at least 6-8 car invert on qualifying times for heat races. A lot of people dont think this format is fair, BUT every year the cream rises to the top at knoxville, and usually the qualifying nights are very exciting.

Shit!! Cutler just threw a pick

Anyways, i agree the heats suck and something like this should be done.

just because they get races scheduled and fans keep going doesn't mean that it is great racing.just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good,all you have to do is look at the music charts,99% crap and the box office,very few movies worth seeing.people are starstruck,they think that just because of the drivers names they are seeing something worthwhile.i haved learned over the years that the names of the drivers and quality of the racing are not necessarily related.

It's pretty obvious that the successful promotion of a race has to make a buck or two. Promoters would not schedule the WoO if they didn't draw fans and make money.

Could the racing be better? Probably...but as long as promoters can make money by getting the WoO, the show will go on. And I'd be willing to bet that most of the shows at your local short track are won from the first three rows.....

Chuck.....

Chuck, I wouldn't mind seeing the winner, in a WoO race, come from the third row.

It's all those "walk off wins" that have ruined it for me.

Wished one of our "local guys" could have won it.

Meyers, being full-time traveler, is no longer a local to me.

Allard had the best shot...don't know what happened..but from 4th to 9th last night!

TSA...It's not a GROPE...it's a Freedom Pat!

I'm not disagreeing that it is no fun watching someone run away with the win from the pole, but it's ironic

that this arguement is being made THIS year when for the most part the racing has been very good and

there have been some winners coming from pretty deep in the field. The problem is that a lot of times the

fastest car ends up in the front two rows and there is simply no one there to contest him if he has the joint

figured out. I dont know if there is anything you are going to do about it short of arranging the order of

A main from slowest to fastest qualifying speed. While this would make for some pretty good racing, I

think it would be a tad unfair. The fact remains that out of every 10 races you go to (in any series from

Nascar to Indy's to Late models) you are going to see 4 really boring races, 4 ok races, and 2 really

good ones. So, if you want to see good racing, you have to see a lot of racing.

Just my opinions

You mean like NAPCAR ?? They both get dates......is it good racing in either series? NOT VERY OFTEN !!

Take it to the Top & let it Rock

Heats are very important in the WoO, the top 2 get spots in the dash which is incredibly important.

there have been some winners coming from pretty deep in the field....

In your estimation, what is "deep in the field?" Say, 4th, 5th 6th ?

thanx,

leon'

how many winners this year who started 6th or further back?

TSA...It's not a GROPE...it's a Freedom Pat!

Fred Rahmer won from 24 th back in May at Williams Grove; Greg Hodnett won from 6th; fell back to 9th and Won at Williams Grove in July; Either Joey Saldanna or Jason Meyers won from 18th a few races back !

Long Live  20 Time  World Of Outlaws Champion Steve 
Kinser #11 

I know there have been a lot of wins from past the first 3 rows, with a couple of wins from 18 and 23rd (i believe?) Being a sprint race, cars winning from outside the top 3 rows would be deep in the field and it seems there has been a lot more of that this year than usual. If the races lasted 2 hours and had fuel stops and tire stops, then cars from 20-24th would win on a regular basis. But if you want to watch that, turn the tv on Sunday afternoon.

you are entitled to your opinion, and i will respect it, but I think it has been as competitive of a year as it could be. there could be some tweaking, but overall there isnt a lot they are going to be able to do to improve. If one of the high dollar teams gets one of the top 4 starting spots, the race is likely to be a run away, but this is the case at any track in america, every week, every division.

TheFansfan

How about invert 8 cars for the heat races, top 4 transfer to main.

Invert 8 for the main, from cars that transferred from heat races.

Oh we alredy have that with the CRA/USAC shows

Some of the Biggest costs are motors and wings. SOLUTION-take the wings off-lesswear and tear on motors, and guys even with less HP could compete.

OK keep the wings and expensive motors, but invert the heats and mains. If people are sandbagging too much (top 8), than maybe do a draw for the top 8 for the main.

Open tires-lets go back to the old days and have qualifying tires, heat race tires, and main event tires if you want a true open tire rule. Costs be damned. This is the top level racing.

OK you want to keep wings and 1 tar a night. Check out the Trophy Cup's format if you want to see the best racing.

My wording was bad. I think the heats are not a good way to place cars in the A main. Heats are what makes or breaks the drivers night and they are mostly luck. Instead of the top 2 cars automatically going to the dash and the top 4 to the A main, i think there should be a tally of points from qualifying, heats, and passing points to determine the A main and the dash. Too often there ends up being cars in the dash that timed 1-2 seconds slower than cars outside of the dash. For a 4 day event like the nationals that is fine, because they are taking 3 days to accumulate points for the main event. But for a one night gig, the fast cars deserve the spots in the A main. If a car qualifies 3rd quick out of 40 cars, runs to 3rd in the heat after passing a few cars, they deserve the spot in the dash. Not a car that qualifies 30th and wins the heat from the front row. The heats arent meaningless, they are just not a good, fair way to place the field.

1. run qualifying, points awarded from 1st to whatever.

2. completely invert heats-points awarded for finish in the heat.

3. award passing points in the heat.

4. tally all points from qualifying, heat race finish, and passing points in the heat.

5. set up you dash and mains based off of these points.

winning a heat wouldnt be an automatic bid for the A main. You would have to perform all night

to get into the A main. Not just for one quick heat race. A lot of bad cars get into the big dance

because of a crappy heat race. That would improve the racing and there would be NO sandbagging

in qualifying.

I think the ASCS has it right with the points system they have. Look at the big names racing in that series. Also when they race at any local tracks alot of the locals arnt afraid to show up and could win the event no matter where they might start. Also i just think that because of the economy that more guys are able to race 360 and not trying to keep up with Schatz and Kinsers of the WOO.

WOO inverts the top16 in TT's for the heat races. A guy that times 30th will start towards the back. The dash takes top two from each heat plus 2 based on time trials. No system is perfect but IMO the WOO has the best system out of the sanctioning groups. You want no passing in the A-main, then the passing points system is the way to go, pretty much guarantees the fastest car will start up front.

A

This would be an ideal format and would make for better racing night in and night out. The Outlaws need to start listening to the fans...both of us!!

The post that refers to the ASCS format as being good as well...I have to respectfully disagree. There is too much weight put on the draw. If ASCS would use qualifying instead of the draw to line the heats up, then I think the fans and racers would get more for their money. I also like the way some of the late model series qualify - group qualifying. That's my 2 cents for what its worth.