Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/chiappelli-short-track-safety/

Good article, Jim... but I'm guessing that most lower budget teams would rather but a RR tire than invest in a HANS device.. or a triple layer suit!

Chuck.....

Maybe the author can explain to me what magic he thinks the HANS device posseses. Since the HANS device was invented to prevent only ONE kind of injury (Basilar Skull Fractures), and the drivers above did not sustain that injury, how would wearing a HANS device made any difference? And since when are Basilar Skull Fractures a problem in sprint cars and midgets?

The HANS device is a fine product and if a driver thinks they are in danger of this specific injury, then by all means wear it. I can't help but roll my eyes when I hear how a certain safety device "saved their life", when others who have been seriously injured or even killed were wearing the exact same thing. Dirt track/open wheel drivers have and can suffer a variety of injuries, Basilar Skull Fractures are not one of them (1 in the past 10+ years by my research).

This is coming from someone who uses a full containment seat, new helmets and a custom 3 layer fire suit with underwear. Since some series I run have mandated some form of a HANS, I asked for ANY data showing the device was tested on dirt, in an upright seated position or on a Sprint Car or Midget. None exists. The use of untested products like this should be left up to the driver and not imposed because another group, on pavement, going 200+ MPH mandated it.

If I felt this type of device was the difference between going to work on Monday or not, I'd wear 2 of them. There is no evidence to prove it has done anything other than to give people a false sense of security.

While I haven't looked for it, I'm sure that HANS has a web site that contains some, or most of the testing data that you're looking for. And I think that the author never intended the article to focus on the HANS alone - he was emphasixing that drivers/owners should buy/use all of the safety equipment that's available to them......

Chuck.....

I was thinking that the primary safety of the hans was to keep the head from hyper extending the neck during a sudden stop and snap rolls, which often can cause the neck to break and sometimes also disconect the skull from C-1, pretty sure I have heard some call this a basil skull fracture as it did indeed break the head loose from the neck, although not in a sprint car I have seen this injury in auto accidents and my understanding is this is what caused Dale Sr. death,

From the grandstands it does appear that a full containment seat is much more important than having a HANS (or similar) device. Most of the serious and fatal sprint car accidents in the last 20 years seem to have come from the driver's head leaving the confines of the rollbar halo or foriegn object pentrating the same area. It doesn't look to me like the HANS is designed to prevent that.

One thing that did strike me odd about the article is that the author stated that Donny Schatz "regrets" not wearing the HANS device that night. I did not read/hear that anywhere. All I remember about the post-accident interviews is that Donny stated that thankfully he had the best equipment and that he put it to the test. Did he ever publicly state that he wishes he had the HANS on that night?

Yes Lake Carl....Dale Sr's death was attributed to a basal skull fracture. NASCAR also tried to blame Simpson's belts for being installed incorrectly. Judging by Kenny Schraders reaction when he dropped the safety net to help Dale and photos of the car interior that were floating around the internet....there is MUCH more to the story.

I don't know if Donny ever made that comment or not. If I remember correctly from viewing the video, Donny's crash started by him getting stuffed head on into the wall. This is the type of impact that could cause the basilar skull fracture. Donny probably would have benefitted from the Hans in this particular crash. Sprint car drivers can indeed experience that same type of impact that NASCAR drivers face, but it is much more rare.

The author never mentions HANS--only an approved head and neck restraint. There are several companies which make head and neck restraints to protect drivers in ways that HANS does not. Based on years of research, testing & development, there are devices tailored specifically to the types of impacts most commonly sustained by sprints, midgets, modifieds and late models. Schatz does not wear a HANS, but another brand. Safety education is the intent.

Then maybe you can explain to me what the "other" approved head and neck restraint devices are designed to protect me from? I wear the Dfender when required by a sanctoning body, and to the best of my understanding, they are all designed to prevent the same injury... the injury that ISN'T remotely common in a sprint car or on dirt.

I would love an open, reasonable and rational discussion of safety. I challenge anyone again to show any head and neck restraint test data related to the specific forces, angles and impacts that occur in our sport. My bigger issue is that these devices are looked at by racers, parents and fans like roll cages were viewed 40 years ago, yet they have not been proven to prevent or lessen any injuries in sprint cars.

As a previous poster mentioned, I feel containment seats are the greatest safety advance in the past 30 years, yet nobody mandates them. I find it beyond silly to see a driver wearing a head and neck restraint device while buckled into a car with a flimsy seat, no window nets or head containment and their helmet even with the top of the roll cage. They are truly missing the intent of safety at that point.