Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

As you are well aware I often bring up the fact that the Posse can really only win at one track and that of course is Williams Grove. Few will argue the point and of course stats prove it out over time. But I also need to point out to those that may not be aware (especially in pa) a final stat that is somewhat of a surprise and borderline disturbing to the locals.

All time W of O feature winners at the Grove; Steve Kinser 37, Mark Kinser 18, Donny Schatz 17 and Sammy Swindell 14. All time Posse winners, Lance Dewease 7, Donnie Kreitz 7, Fred Rahmer 6, Keith Kaufmann 3. Both Bobby Allen and Stevie Smith could be included but their wins were for the most part when they were road warriors, not weakly regulars.

In conclusion, even though they are one track wonders it's painfully obvious that it's not anywhere near as often as some would have you believe. I don't watch the show Mythbusters but have heard of it, not too sure they need to do an episode on this whole Posse thing but it seems appropriate, right? Take It Easy...

Do you ever get sick of typing the same message over and over, year after year? You and Cubic should have a cage match in the infield at the Grove during the National Open.

You are brave MSPN, but I don't see much to argue about. The Grove, IMHO, is one track that it sure would help to race on regularly. We went out to the east coast in 1985 and visited 6 or 7 dirt tracks following the WoO. Also was the first time I ever saw one of those dirt modifieds. Those things are fast, anyway, walked into the grandstands at the Grove and my first look at the first turn I thought, wow, what an odd corner.

Adding $6 trillion of debt in his 1st term and now if 
elected again he wouldn't have to worry about an 
electorate in 2016 so the sky is the limit.And his EPA 
would continue to put the screws to oil drilling and 
mining for coal.Can you say bankruptcy.

Actually Frank I genrally don't bring this up but Cubic got me thinking the other day and shazam another chunk of reality. I am a counter puncher but for a change I took the offensive, sorry if I've offended another cheerleader, lol. Exposing the Posse myth is something I've had fun with for almost 20 years, sorry to hurt your feelings. Since the beginning of this forum I've made a few thousand posts many of which have nothing to do with this charade but nothing gives me more pleasure than to set the record straight. The truth doesn't really hurt it teaches, wouldn't you agree? Take It Easy.....

Mike...

Getting into a argument with a Posse guy is like wrestling with a pig; you get dirty, the pig gets mad, and you don't really prove anything by beating the pig. Now I'm not calling any Posse member a pig; that's an analogy, so don't get all offended!

Most of the rest of us read the "posse versus the world" posts and take them with a grain of salt....they're mildly humorous, and a bit of chest-thumping is OK in my book.

I try and not take it too seriously......

Did you see Sidney's show the other night against Buffalo? Pretty good, eh?

Chuck.....

You should have read what he told me about Fleury after the Detroit game Sunday. Seems he thinks the same of Fleury as he does the Posse.

Fleury single handedly cost Canada the Gold Metal in the World Jr. Hockey Championships a few years back. He let in 4 goals in the third period and we lost 4-3 to the USA, arghhhhh. Even if my Flyers would have drafted him I wouldn't cheer for him. Heck, cheerleading is for Posse fans anyway. I'm not so much anti Posse as anti Posse fan (and only some of them). Cindy (sp) is the greatest talent in the hockey world and he could still lead them to another Cup, sadly.

As to the Posse stuff, hey it's all fun in my books, it does help that I have statistics and the truth on my side. Those Grove stats effective some time last year from their site are still awful impressive to a W of O fan and sobering to the pom pom types in PA. I'm not really anti PA either, not only have the Flyers been my team for over 35 years Lincoln Speedway and Lernerville are among the top 5 in my favorite tracks I've ever been to. It's all good, have a nice snowy day, Take It Easy....

World Juniors??? C'mon... that's yesterday's newspaper.....Over 5 years ago....livin' in the past, are we? LOL.....

He did help the Pens win the Cup, and dissing Sidney by trashing his name really doesn't make his accomplishments any less than they are....

It's almost as if you treat hockey like the posse fans treat sprint car racing against the WoO....

Chuck.....

Calling him the greatest talent in hockey is hardly 'dissing' Syd the Whiner, c'mon. Actually El Sievo, Mr. Fleury only let in 3 in the final period of that infamous game, lol. The winner was easily the worst winning goal of any significant competition in history. Fleury shot the puck off his own defenseman (ask Steve Smith about a similiar play) and it went into the net, brutal. Now back to the Outlaws success at the Grove.....Take It Easy...

NOT disagreeing with MSPN and this is a slight topic change, but since it's that time of year, I think some Florida stats from the past 20 years would be interesting. I can think of (multiple) wins by Eash, Mackison, Kauffman, Shepard, even one for Bill Brian Jr...and yes, I realize these are against mostly All Stars and other variety of drivers, some WoO regulars mixed in. Anyone have access and bored enough to put together the list of Florida winners? I always loved that guys from anywhere and everywhere would win in Florida, for example, Johnny Mackison Jr, Mark Keegan, Gary Wright, even Brian Schnee and Billy Brian.

Jeff Kristensen

Copy and pasted from Kevin Eckert's Open Wheel Times (click date for full field rundown)

A slackjawed yokel once told me, "I am assuming your 
just some niave broad who likes to shoot her mouth off 
so I will give you a pass just this once on your 
dipshit comments." 

A slackjawed yokel once told me, "I am assuming your 
just some niave broad who likes to shoot her mouth off 
so I will give you a pass just this once on your 
dipshit comments." 

It's such a silly argument, you take the WoO, representing all 50 states, and say their better than the Posse, which is representing, PA. Jesus, I'd HOPE you can find 10 drivers nationwide that are as good or better than the Posse drivers that inhabit about 5 of the counties in PA.

Bottom line, if the Posse is as pathetic as some here make them sound, why do all the greats that were mentioned call it the "toughest competition" they face(d)? Doesn't make sense to me. Daryn Pittman is a great example, over a prior four years, he averaged over five wins a year running with the Outlaws. Weekly in PA for an entire season, he only wins four? You'd think if that outlaw competition was so much greater he'd have won 20 races....but no, didn't happen. I'm a big Tyler Walker fan, and I'm very excited about his arrival...won 9 races in GSC last year, my guess is, running twice(maybe three times) as many races in PA this year, he'll be lucky to get half as many wins as he did in Cali.

I agree, the Outlaws are more than likely going to outperform the Posse teams down in Florida for the most part. Yet, I ask, how many Chico regulars are going to beat them, how bout Knoxville regulars? Attica? Skagit? ANYWHERE ELSE? I doubt a single one(is a single one going to show up?). That's a real apples to apples comparison. Then in August it will be Knoxville. Again, the Posse will get out performed in Knoxville by the majority of the Outlaws, yet, how many Knoxville regulars will even show up to run the National Open in PA? None, and why would they. They know what happens to them when the Outlaws come to town, and they see what happens to the Outlaws when they head east.

Anyway, all jesting aside, 410's TONIGHT. CAN'T WAIT!

help us out here Mulligan...where are the LOCAL WIN STATS from Kville...oh thats right...they had to go ON THE ROAD to learn how to WIN at their HOME TRACK! hhhhhahahahahaah

not counting pre-lim wins is proof that you are only picking your own scabs from the last time you took a pounding on this issue!

WELCOME BACK to GROUNDHOG DAY!

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I am sure this "debate" will be picked up by PMSNBC for future generations to experience.

In the mean time...just give me a dirt track.....sprint cars.....with a wing or topless.....and let me enjoy the races. Unless Andy Forsberg or Jonathan Allard are in the race I really don't care who wins...including a Posse driver.

TSA...It's not a GROPE...it's a Freedom Pat!

Courtesy of Kevin Eckert.

Just look at the "local domination"!!!

Member of this message board since 1997

Member of this message board since 1997

LOL, a pounding on this issue. Once again, the Posse myth is more than exposed. Clowns like you would have the masses believe the Posse dominate at the Grove when the reality is they are generally hammered there like elsewhere but they do get some wins, just not what you and the other cheerleaders would have us believe, lol. Blind squirrels find acorns too, Take It Easy...

PS Knoxville in this discussion, why? You trying another spin job....

Member of this message board since 1997