Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The long story short question: Is it worth giving up safety in one area to gain some in others? I am going to be a rookie in sprint cars, and am considering ditching some of my safety gear.

The whole deal: After watching the video of the awesome response from the Knoxville safety team......I fear had it been me in that situation, it would have turned out much worse. I am a big guy to begin with, which makes it more difficult to pull from the car in a case like this. Here are the safety items that would cause a further problem beyond the difficulty of pulling a big guy out (I am 240)

Cage safety bars: This makes it hard to get someone out of the car, especially a bigger guy.

Full containment seat: See above, only making it much, much harder.

Hans belt harness system: This is the typical 5 point harness, with an additional 2" set of shoulder belts on top of the normal 3" for the hans to stay in place. It is very likely that getting pulled from the car in a hurry with trap the hans in the smaller belts making quick extraction more difficult, if not impossible. Conditions as seen in the video are not always ideal to troubleshoot quickly.

I feel that while each of these items add a specific advantage to certain situations, it is also a double edged sword which will make a quick removal unlikely, if not possible. If a situation were to arise with a fire that could not be quickly extinguished, I think you might as well bring hotdogs and sticks to the crash scene. I am thinking about using a convential aluminum seat in the car instead of the full containment....using a right side shoulder support, and sprint car window nets on both sides for head containment. Belts....not using the 2" supplemental belts for the hans, or not even use the hans at all. Lastly....the thought of removing the left side safety bar. My car was originally made without them, so they are not needed for any kind of structural integrity.

Any thoughts?

For the safety bars, I don't think it would hurt you much to take them out, lots of people don't run them.

Full Containment Seat: I've ran one for 3 years and wouldn't go back. Keeps your upper body from moving around so much. At first, It was a pain getting in and out of it, but after doing it for a few months you can do it just as fast as regular seat.

As far as the HANS device, to each its own. I don't run one because I feel like it is not the right device for sprint car racing. It is designed only for head on impacts, and how often do you hit the wall head on in a sprint car? Most crashes are end over end flips or barrel rolls. I've heard alot of stuff about people's injuries being caused by the HANS as well, so that scares me some. I've looked into getting the Hybrid device, it supposedly works well as far as side to side movement as well as forward.

Unless you're stuck upside down, getting out of the car with the containment seat, a HANS, a safety bar, or any combination of the three is not going to be much slower than with a regular seat and head nets.

Be smart and don't short yourself on safety.

I spoke with Mike Houseman Jr. on Tuesday. He was using the ButlerBuilt Sprint Advantage (full containment seat). I specifically asked if the seat posed any issues in his ability to get out of the car. He told me absolutely not, that in fact he believed it helped him. He took a really hard impact, one in which he could've been knocked out, he wasn't. He said that he felt if he had an older style seat, he would have been more exposed to the fire. He believes that the full containment seat actually prevented him from sustaining additional burns, it shielded his body from the fire because of the way it wraps around. I also spoke with the member of the rescue team that actually pulled Mike out of the car and asked if the seat posed any issues for him. I was told absolutely not.

Visit www.butlerbuilt.net and listen to Doug Wolfgang's audio clip.

Jeannie Butler

I'm interested in this fire suppression system:

http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ctrp_0904_sprint_car_fire_extinguisher/index.html

It's designed for sprint cars and midgets, and it's very light and compact.

Thanks guys....I was more or less speaking about the specific situation of being knocked out, and on fire....relying on safety workers to be able to pull you out. I can say, it is harder for me to get in and out on my own with the seat.

Tim,I'm big to and have the same fear of fire as you ...I've raced 10 years ,caught on fire once ,and heres my compromise for safety......buy a tall -wide car 41",no safety hoops in top...'No fuel pump between your legs-all the fuel system possible on the engine side [that dash-fire wall could be the difference between life and death],I tried a containment seat-wouldn't use one again,can't get out the side if upside down]....look at a few cars ,some left side safety bars are located back enough as not to interfer so -you decide...a fire suppression system is great -but if your out who deploys it.....mount your fuel cell well and route your main fuel line safe as possible-an emergence fuel shutoff at the tank is also a good idea ,,,,the HANS probly won't slow you down....look how great/fast the Knoxville guys are...get your local track safety crew up to speed like those guys ..you can race with confidence

Good luck timcole. New sprint car drivers are always welcome. Anyone who climbs into one of those speed bullets is a hero of mine. I'll have another hero.

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Tim,Ive had luck thus far with the Defender, a full containment seat, and the left/right side safety bar,(some say the safety bars upset the flex of the chassis) mind you, im 5-11 170 lbs, I fit in a conventional car pretty well , the Defender allowed for lateral loads on the chest area,(in relation to the bottom/chin area of the helmet, it took some time to get use to not wearing a foam type neck brace , however I did noticed marks on the collar area of the support recently after a pretty tuff barrol roll type incident I felt like a million shortly after the wreck (well, physically that is, wallet still hurts ) maybe, Jeannie can shed some light on the avalibility of a neck support for a larger driver? I understand after talking with a couple other drivers that would like to use the device, it didnt fit them properly, and virtually offered no (satisfactory) protection, spinal cord dimentions and comfort to the driver became a issue, the wings offerd on the device, did present a problem for me to exit the crash (granted, im a little new to the item) when in panic/upset state of mind, things just dont go as well as the directions "easily" explain, I guess, the way I see it is, nine times out of ten a wreck will occur without fire, I want to be contious to try excape if fire is present, most places a guy races at (around here),the safety crew is not familiar with your equipment, to extract you quickley that is , Ive seen other drivers, many times, all of us have (watching a event, with firesuit on) become a distressed drivers best bet of finding a hero , I think most of us would have no problem reaching in a car to pull a competitor out, simply because we are dressed for it , Rule #1: spend money on a good firesuit get as many layers as you can afford, the nomex underwear has come a long ways the last few years and is much cooler to wear than later apparel, I also recomend Awesome Racewear and CarbonX , (drinking a coke and switching hats LOL) but really,both good products, both protect my ass, each and every night , goodluck

Get on the web site that Jeannie Butler gave you. The seat the Mike had we had no problems getting him out. The safety crew were you are racing should be familiar with the safety protection you have, if you think it might be a problem ask them to come and look at it. If you come to Knoxville you will see the safety crew walking around the pit area before the races in regular clothes looking at different cars and if we see something we stop and talk to the driver. As far as getting you out of the car the safety crew gets that burst of energy and trust me you will come out. If you look at the video of Knoxville Mike isn't small but isn't great big either and he was back peddling very fast

I've never seen you but if you're a soft 240 you might want to consider a better diet if you're that worried about it. Not saying this to be a jerk but it's something you should seriously consider. There is the one 305 driver at Fremont that used to be in trucks and he is huge. I think the wheel hits his belly or it should. He is one I'd tell to cut out the beers and pizzas. Look into a (Spelling) Larriet?!?! It's what the dirt bike riders where and they are making them for race car drivers. I think I saw Brad Haudenschild with one at Speedweeks.

Iwould say you need to talk to Dale Blaney he is a tall guy .

Leatt Brace,I tried one at Ventura....felt fine -didn't inhibit vision,they have a certified one -USAC approved...by the way..I'm 240 and pick up the rear of the car with one hand -not every one large is fat...besides the guy just wants to race,I wish him well...

# 1 Buy the BEST firesuit underwear gloves shoes and facemask you can get and us it even if it hot.Not all tracks have safety crews like Knoxville

That is what I meant by soft. I'm a 215 lb guy at 10% Body fat. Just saying if he is that worried about getting in and out of a seat and he is 240 and 20% BF. He could be a nice 220 and 17% and be a little less concerning.

From a long time veteran safety team member...please do not compromise the safety things you mentioned. You are doing the things that have proven their value over time...one good outcome does not mean you can let down your guard.

Any safety team worth a pinch of "stuff" knows that the days of manhandling an unconsicous driver out of a car are "long ago over". Today, we need to fight the fire away from the driver...period! If the driver is ready to come out of the car, helping them out of the car is something else. It is most important to make sure the safety team where you are running has appropriate fire extinguishing materials, have proper protective clothing, and are adequately trained for motorsports. Being a structural firefighter does not make you a qualified racing safety team member.

The Knoxville team did a nice job in the Houseman situation...and that is what they are equipped and trained for. They did their jobs...nothing more, nothing less...they did exactly what every team should have done. And drivers need to be concerned about what kind of help they have at EVERY track...take nothing for granted! Great personal safety equipment with no safety team is unacceptable...using poor personal gear with a great safety team does not give us much to work with...having great personal safety equipment and having a well-equipped, well-trained safety team is what we all need.

Tracks do not have great safety teams by accident (pardon the pun)...the promoter needs to know you care...and it is not without some cost...they need the support of the racers and the fans.

speeking of, ive heard a old wifes tail that shoulder epaulets (sp) sewn into the fire suit were in place for driver extraction? any truth? have yet to see somebody dragged out by the epaulets , just interesting? anybody?

I have to agree on the diet if you are seriously thinking of cutting back on safety equipment. Losing 30 pounds makes better sense than losing the Hans. On a second note if you are so worried about this you should not be driving a sprint car. Jason Statler is one of the biggest drivers out there and I don't think he would ever cut safety equipment for a worry like this. I also have to agree with Turn3fire, its the adrenaline rush that will get you out of that car. These guys know what they are doing and know what they are dealing with, have some faith in them