Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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Guess this is kind of a question for Drivers that might get on here and look.

Ya hear today from guys who drive the downtube cookie cutter cars about how this car is liked better than that car and so on and chances are they were probably built side by side and or one right after the other and most all of them look a like with some things on them being somewhat different.

I was just wondering what drivers thought about the 100" Super Modified and the Dirt Champ Cars of the 70's and 80's. What worked better on a heavy track , dry slick, rough or what car seemed to work better at 1/4 mile at Lawton or the 5/8 at Tulsa , I know you adjust to the conditions of the racing surface but just wondered with more individuality built cars of that era, what car had a the bigger window to allow to be a little off and still run well.

Nance, Walker, Barnett, Stanton, Challenger,Jelly, Parsons,Howerton, Gambler,Gilmore Etc.

I bring this up because when I was talking to Harold Leep Sr. at the last get together in OKC in Feb. , I asked him how he liked driving the Euclid St. Missle Jelly car #99 back in the late 70's and said the car was not that great when they had coil overs on it but when they put 4 bar torsion back on it , was a really great car then , I was about 15 or so then and I just thought and heard back then that was a really great car and had all the nice pieces on it for that time and just found it interesting to hear him say that.

So I just was wondering what some other drivers thought that visit this board, one that comes to mind that has drove em all throughout that era.

Shane Carson could chime in on this and give some insight on what his opinion is, not asking who is the best chassis or anything, just individual drivers thoughts of what cars he drove and what he thought of them.

Tony Armstrong , John Stewart , Allen Crawford, Gary Cole just some of the drivers I know post on here and anyone else who wants to put their thoughts in on this. David Grace , you can probably say something on this subject as well as you have helped a few good ones over the years.

Just think it would be interesting to hear some of the thoughts.

JD, this '87 Nance car was like a slot car on a heavy race track, but we never could get it to hook up on the dry slick. It worked well at Lawton, too.

John Stewart

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JD, I did drive a few different manufactrures cars but mostly with the same results. Of course you know I was never the "shoe" you have.

I drove Charlie Kammerzell's '86 Nance with a top wing and like John said about his '87 Nance on a heavy track and at Lawton and Meeker you could almost flat foot it, but dry to dry slick it was a pedaling game. That was the last Chassis I drove, and the first car I ever drove with power steering.

The first chassis that I recall hitting the track with or should I say, hitting the competitors with was a Stanton. That was the first car I had ever driven so I really had no clue about it's performance until we won the "B" Feature at Meeker with car owner Ron Seimens #88. Same car that broke a King Pin on the right front going into three, that sun-o-gun dug in and the tire and wheel assembly went into the marsh lands and Allen went head over heals. (bad headache for two or three days) But the ole car was handling good.

The next car I drove or co-drove with Randy Whitson was the 11x Walker Chassis. Good Chassis, good set-up by D.E. The ole car worked good, but the American Truck Salvage motors for some reason just did'nt hold up.

From there I went to the Ol' Vickie body car (school bus) #44. That peice was probably the most fun and at the same time the most intemidating car to drive. It had the old hand clutch, with cross linkage so if you had to pull back on the clutch handle to keep from stalling the motor you could not push the brake pedal because that would engage the clutch. Home Made Chassis, piece work, but D.E. sold it to the Denton's who ran the car for a couple three years after.

Gene Whitiker offered me a ride in the #19 Walker paralell car, that thing was a beast. Chuck Robinett told me "son, when your in the middle of the corner, you are actually picking the car up and setting it down with steering wheel". D.E. said the only way to get this car to work is to find a 13" left rear and tire combo. According to D.E. the car would not work without roll-out, it was built for Bobby and built to run a Jalonie on the right rear. At the time I drove the deal we had a RR Goodyear Spec.

After that I got into the #3 C.A.E. chassis that was originally a bolt on cage Sprint Car that had been streched to 98 1/2" , but don't tell Jim Messemer, he was doing the track inspections at that time, and with me palming the end of the tape measure and Jim on the business of the ruler we was legal. That ol springer front end car would go. I think the only thing it needed was your driver J.D.

So my vote goes to the C.A.E. with the right hand manuel steer. '86 Nance w/power steering less the wing would have to be second (I think the wing unsettled the car).

That's pretty interesting stuff to hear from cars you seen run back then and get drivers perspective of how it was who drove them.

I was over at AJ Littles house one time. He had a picture framed of the Gregory #6 he drove around '70 there on his bar. I knew he had driven the first Parson 4-bar car(#67-Singin 5 with Herring) and I knew he was driving a Barnett at the moment with a wing.

I asked him if the new cars felt a lot different to him than the old cars. He said "Naw, the new cars are faster, but that's 'bout it.".

When you deduct 'speed' from the equation, it's funny how many drivers are torn between their favorite 4-bar and their favorite springer cars.

I know one guy that is convinced that if he still had a car he had in 1974, he'd run off and leave everybody today in the Champ Sprint class! I'm serious, he tells me everytime I see him.

The wins are great, but the experience with the car itself is what determines a lot of times the value of the memory at hand.

Even amongst the great drivers, one mans worst night in a race car could make him hate that car forever. The next man that drove it, may have thought it was the best thing he ever got his hands on.

I'm not certain that the win column always determines a drivers favorite car.

I remember Gary Wright saying one time when he was driving Schnee's in the mid 90's about how he could feel the cars better than others but today he runs a Maxim and Schnee still builds cars.

Like Aaron Lemmons once told me at one of his Swap Meets in Tulsa , they are all pieces of tubing , you just got to get them to working right for the driver , it is as simple as that. That was about the best sum up of the deal I have ever heard.

Driver mindset has got to have lot to do with it too. Steve kinser went from a Mitchell chassis all the way to maxim over the years and for a long stretch it seemed that where ever Kenny Jenkins went, Karl Kinser got a house deal from that group. I'm sure Karl gave a lot of input too. Still, Steve outweighed many drivers and it never seemed to bother him.

Steve is a great driver in his own right, But I'll bet Karl could write a book on driver Psychology.

JD, in your case, whatever is working for you guys, it's working for sure.