Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

At the short track nationals the scuttlebutt amongst those who should be in the know was that the ASCS series had so far secured 16-17 dates. I'm sure they are still working promotors trying to get that number up into the mid 20s. With the difficult economic conditions right now I'm sure that is proving to be a daunting task......

an interesting number i wish i could see. is how many people NATION WIDEsaw at least 1 World of Outlaws race? and how many people NATION WIDEsaw at least 1 ASCS Sanctioned race?

If the WoO sanctioned individual tracks in addition to 10 regional series of 410 racing plus its national tour, surely the #s would lean heavily towards the WoO.

...

Who would believe its like that just about EVERY weekend at Attica? I love living here in Ohio! Not many places on earth with better local winged 410 racing. Central PA and K'ville...and us!!!

By the way:

12 WoO races

0 ASCS races

I don't have the VS network either...but I do have SPEED and ESPN.

Former Owner/President of FAST and Black Swamp Media
Group. Currently just another fan in the stands.

we had a local tack sign an unprecedented 10 year deal with ASCS a year or two ago...i think the deal lasted 3 or 4 races!

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Yea, the forum is loaded wih archaic 410 zealots. Or maybe it is jsut that people all over the country will choose 410s over 360s any time they are given the choice. You bang the drum year after year for the 360 Nationals, and how many people go watch it?

The only reason you keep trying to claim over and over that 360 racing is superior to 410s is because you are stuck watching nothing but 360s all year long. At places like Knoxville or central PA with the 358s, what you call the headline class is the support division.

Who is following this ASCS National tour next year? Other thans places where fans never get to see 410s, the names that followed the ASCS National tour the last several years wouldn't even draw enough fans nationally to pay the purse. The ASCS came to PA two years go and ran in front of a few hundred fans.

Good to see that more and more people are starting to catch on to the 360 propaganda that some media and series and its fans are throwing out out there....

Here are some stats to digest...

World of Outlaws: 63 total race events with 15 different winners. Champion Donny Schatz won 18 races. Fifteen drivers competed at all WoO events (not including Dollansky, although the car raced every show)

All Star Circuit of Champions: 32 total race events with 17 different winners. The series went to several new tracks this year, too.

ASCS National Tour: 35 races on their schedule with fifteen different winners...but...those races include at least four nights of split-field shows at Knoxville and Little Rock. Also, six races were won by drivers who compete weekly in 410s or travel with the WoO, Bruce (3), McCarl, Lasoski, Brown. Seven drivers competed in every show. Jason Johnson won twelve times.

Is Jason Johnson's 12 wins more impressive than Schatz's 18?. Which series was more predictable?

While I have no way of knowing for sure, I would suggest that the World of Outlaws had more lead changes in the last few laps of a race this season than in a long time. You never knew what was going to happen at an All Stars race where a series regular or quality local driver had an equal chance of winning. They had great races in the Golden State Challenge Series this season. Pennsylvania and Ohio had great racing in the 410 divisions. How many cars did Mark Dobmeier pass this year in the upper midwest? The notion that 360s/ASCS has better racing than what is found in 410s is a complete and utter fallacy. Maybe if people repeat the lie enough it takes a life of its own.

You want better racing? Change the format. Somebody mentioned the Trophy Cup in California as an example. Institute something like that for a 410 series or special event and you'd really have something to talk about.

Back to the original premise of this thread...I wouldn't worry about the World of Outlaws (or the All Stars or any other group of 410s in the nation)...they'll all be around in '08, with full schedules and great racing. Meanwhile, we'll see what becomes of this 360 series...even though the promoter of it doesn't want to call it a 360 series and is trying to poach as many 410 drivers as possible...they're talking big but I know of one prestigious track in Indiana that was offered an ASCS National show for '09 ( a $45k "value" discounted to under $30k)...and they still wouldn't take one. And that's just ONE example I can give.

now that i can agree with.

thats the "nationwide" edge ascs has a sanction over the outlaws. nationwide - wayyy more folks see an ascs race than a 410 race because of the regions. but that shouldnt be a cop out. WoO has been around since 1978 - why didnt they put together something like that?

that fact should not be used as detriment. because in the end - ascs DID do it - and the WoO did not.

i read what i typed yesterday and everything since - and cant help be reminded by the fact whats under the hood dont matter as much as the track conditions that particular track puts together....

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

There is no way in hell the World of Outlaws (as we know it) is going to survive in this economy. They have barely been treading water for over ten years as it is. Financing alone has been keeping them going, and now even that has dried up.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

"...they're talking big but I know of one prestigious track in Indiana that was offered an ASCS National show for '09 ( a $45k "value" discounted to under $30k)...and they still wouldn't take one. And that's just ONE example I can give."

Go ahead Katich, share the name of that track with everybody won't you?

Trick question of course, because there is no such track. Another one of your outright lies. A compound lie in fact, as you threw at least three mistruths into that one sentence.

Comes as no surprise though, everybody knows your agenda and it's grown tiresome.

Sad thing is, you actually claim to be a fan of sprint car racing, a proponent. You're just pathetic, that's the nicest way I know to put it.

Hey what does everyone think of this? I like sprintcar racing I have worked for some high and low budget teams that ran 360s and 410s. Some of you like them some of you don't. Who really cares? Just because he like 410s doesn't mean I can't like 360's. I like both I just like SPRINTCAR RACING just like everyone that gets on hoseheads so why don't we start telling good stories about the fun we have had at a good sprintcar race.

love the ASCS

love the WoO

I do pay a bit more for a WoO race, but also believe the WoO is the cream of the crop

even the 305's put on a good show..all sprints are exciting

-Austin Rankin

I am a diehard WoO fan and always will be. But I would go to an ASCS race if they came to Eldora!

lets get one thing straight right now, i didn't state WHAT my preference was between 410 or 360 or if i even had one. my comment about obama and ascs is completely correct, no one knows yet wtf they will end up doing or how things will work out for them. that is not a slam, it is just the truth. i live in cali where 360 racing is prob'ly stronger than it has ever been and 410 racing has thankfully been able to continue to exist. it is not my fault you live in the middle of nowhere where 410 is your PO Box or route number. in the span of a week i was able to see some great racing with a woo show at ocean speed way and tulare and the trophy cup at tulare. the best 410 and 360 races of the year. looking forward to next year. happy thanksgiving and best wishes to you my slightly demented message board friend. by the way your turkey is on it's way to the white house, should be delivered around jan 20th. hope all the white meat isn't gone by the time it gets there!

I agree,it's amazing they have hung on this long.Maybe they should get in line for some of that bail-out money,I would rather see my tax dollars going to sprint car racing than wall-street and big banks.

OKCFan, I agree with you. Someone else posted that they haven't seen a WoO race because they're from Texas. I'm from D/FW and WoO hasn't raced around here in years. I think they still go to Houston, but not Dallas which ironically is their birthplace. And since we have ASCS coming into the D/FW area I don't really miss the Outlaws at all. The last time I did see the WoO it was at the ditch in West Memphis. As for this year I saw ASCS several times, and I saw the All Stars at the ditch. I didn't see the Outlaws this year.

I don't care whether the Outlaws have Lasoski, Kinser, Schatz, etc. I care about the racing. With respect to Devils Bowl, Gary Wright used to win WoO shows out there too. I might add that Jason Johnson and Wayne Johnson have also have very good showings in the 410 world the last couple of years. So basically I don't care if the WoO or their parent company goes belly up. Go ASCS!

Guess it's time to respond.... In the words of Tony Stewart - "here kitty, kitty, kitty"

Some of Katich's stats "World of Outlaws: 63 total race events with 15 different winners." By my calculations that comes out to a differend winner every 4.2 races.

"ASCS National Tour: 35 races on their schedule with fifteen different winners." The calculator on this one says a different winner every 2.3 races. So, in your own words, "Which series was more predictable?" Guess you just answered your own question.

Next - "While I have no way of knowing for sure" If you have no way of knowing for sure, then why would you make any comments? Even suggestions and opinions are based on facts (or what you believe to be facts). We all have our opinions, but they are based on what we actually saw or heard from someone that was there and relayed information to us.

"The notion that 360s/ASCS has better racing than what is found in 410s is a complete and utter fallacy. Maybe if people repeat the lie enough it takes a life of its own."

It's good to know that the ASCS shows are a "fallacy" and a lie. I'm sure that the drivers, car owners and fans will be relieved to hear this and know that you just called them liars. Thanks for that little piece of ammo! I'll make sure that everyone that is associated with ASCS and all of it's entities gets that memo.

Then you tell us how much good racing there is with the different organizaitons that you support and follow that up with this..."You want better racing? Change the format." Excuse me, but if the racing was as good as you just stated, why would you suggest ANY changes.

"Meanwhile, we'll see what becomes of this 360 series" you mean the one with the new sponsorship from Lucas Oil and K&N Filters or the one with the television package?

"even though the promoter of it doesn't want to call it a 360 series and is trying to poach as many 410 drivers as possible" I'm sure that you talked to the promoter and found out exactly what he was trying to do before you made this statement, so it is probably the only true statement that you made. Oh wait, I guess you haven't talked to him or it would be archived on your show, sorry.

"they're talking big but I know of one prestigious track in Indiana that was offered an ASCS National show for '09 ( a $45k "value" discounted to under $30k)...and they still wouldn't take one. And that's just ONE example I can give." as Lonnie asked, why don't you tell us what the name of that prestigious track is, who made that offer and when it was made? And you talk as if you have many more of them as well, so don't keep us in suspense, please. Let's have the facts, places and names. If not, then it just falls right back, like normal, to you having a personal agenda.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty

Sweeton

The Fallacy part................

Your taking a word out of context and doing exactly what everyone accuses him of doing. He didn't call the ascs a fallacy (even though, he probably does feel that way). He called the perception a fallacy.

"Here kitty, kitty, kitty"....................Really? The last time I looked, Tony Stewart owned and supported 410 sprints.

I will agree that the WoO is an overblown product that produces sub-standard racing, but the problem lies in the format and tire rules, not necessarily the cubic engine rules. I support the idea of the end to the cubic inch rules but that has nothing to do with 360's. If anything, they need to be allowed to go bigger.

Earlier in this thread I posted a link to a video clip of a race that prooved that there is amazing racing to be had in 410 racing. Yet, everyone in 360 country have convinced themselves that its not even a possibility or its a myth. It's just not true. You guys need to leave it alone. You seem to waste more energy trying to convince yourselves that you have a better product than acctually enjoying what you are seeing. Every time there is a thread like this, it's started by a 360 supporter trying to bash 410's. Get over it.

...

what does the World of Outlaws have right now that ASCS does not?

steve kinser, kraig kinser, donny schatz, joey saldana, craig dolannsky, jac haudenschild.....

the ascs national tour is kind of like obama right now, you can talk smack about them all you want but nobody realy knows wtf they will do.

I go for a good race, the face under the helmet has never been a big priority for me. 360 vs 410 is not a big hang up for me as well! Give me either but give me a good field of cars and a good race and it's all goooood with me.

my point, that no one seemed to catch is that those guys are going to be the class of the field no matter where they race. they are going to be the ones to beat no matter where they race. if you think they can't put a 360 in and clean up you have another thing coming. tony bruce, a great guy and a hard competitor, but not a top running outlaw was able to beat the cream of the crop in ascs this year. if you don't think it matters who is behind the wheel as to the calibre of competition you are out of your mind. yes you can have good competition, but when the real competition comes in you can notice the difference. this has been going on forever this argument about who is better. it was between the woo and the posse and now it it going on between the woo and the ascs. there are great racers EVERYWHERE. the thing is that the top running guys in the woo have excelled locally and regionally and moved up to excel nationally, and have been doing it on a regular basis. to be the best you have to beat the best. and to beat the best you have to race with the best. the top guys in the woo have shown they can, on aveage, win where ever they go. that says something to their talent. it is not the woo that makes the drivers the best, it is the drivers that make the woo the best. now things can change if the best drivers change venues, or if another venue comes up with drivers that can out perform the best. and that means race them and beat them.