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Topic: TK schedule
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Page 2 of 3 of 54 replies
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August 04, 2008 at
02:21:49 PM
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You are starting to prove my point. Its pretty amazing that a guy that doesnt run with the wing dang near at all, can take it off, go to the PAS during the Oval Nationals, and be competiteve with those guys. Pretty amazing. Now take Darland, Hines, and those guys and put a wing on them and lets see how they do at the Gold Cup. My beat is they wouldnt be in the show. This is really nothing new, WoO's never changed a rule so a non wing guy could compete, but I remember when USAC use to change rules so that WoO guys couldnt run with them. Wonder what the point of that was?? haha
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August 04, 2008 at
03:17:58 PM
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If I remember correctly, didn't Tim lead the Oval Track Nationals up until he broke last year. Correct me if I am wrong.
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August 04, 2008 at
04:21:35 PM
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This message was edited on
August 04, 2008 at
04:25:27 PM by RadRobinlb
Interesting point Mr. Tripcrwn. Who in the GSC, other than the Keadings, have taken the "barn door" off to compete with the USAC Sprints at the Oval Nationals? It would appear that these two men are an exception to the status quo when it comes to wingers taking them off to compete with traditional sprints. Plain and simple, anyone else from the GSC is hard pressed to do what these two have done at the Oval Nationals. Come October, I am sure that we will see the Keadings and Golobic at the Oval Nationals, but who else? It would seem to me that the GSC guys are more content to chase the WoO around than to try their hands at traditional sprints.
RADROBINLB
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August 04, 2008 at
05:17:55 PM
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Thanks for Sponsering The #4 Car. Mark, Tony Lance and You are all a Class Act. Hope the Tradition continues Rick and Ron Horton, Mike Andreeta, Bill DeChamps, Jimmy Boyd, Sills and Gurney and Gary Patterson, Boldrini and Others set and doing Well Running Traditional Cars.
Bruce
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August 04, 2008 at
05:59:41 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RadRobinlb on August 04 2008 at 04:21:35 PM
Interesting point Mr. Tripcrwn. Who in the GSC, other than the Keadings, have taken the "barn door" off to compete with the USAC Sprints at the Oval Nationals? It would appear that these two men are an exception to the status quo when it comes to wingers taking them off to compete with traditional sprints. Plain and simple, anyone else from the GSC is hard pressed to do what these two have done at the Oval Nationals. Come October, I am sure that we will see the Keadings and Golobic at the Oval Nationals, but who else? It would seem to me that the GSC guys are more content to chase the WoO around than to try their hands at traditional sprints.
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Ever hear of Jason York - a winger from Chico? And he's won a regular season main event at Perris..., and was a regular for a while, too.
Shain Mathews ran the Ovals a few years back. as did Andy Forsberg. They've both run with the GSC. While neither did fantastic, they did make the effort.
It takes a special talent to go from a wing car to a non-wing car, as well as a special setup man and crew. It's not an easy switch.....
Chuck.....
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August 04, 2008 at
06:34:29 PM
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Arguing about this is like a debate on gun control, abortion or the legalisation of drugs. Those with a fixed point of view will never change. After all, 25% of Americans still think we have a competent guy in the White House, you can't educate a closed mind. That said, go watch the kind of racing you prefer and forget that the other exists. As long as you continue to go to the races that is all that matters.
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August 04, 2008 at
07:36:39 PM
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This message was edited on
August 04, 2008 at
07:38:16 PM by RadRobinlb
Reply to:
Posted By: sprinter25 on August 04 2008 at 05:59:41 PM
Ever hear of Jason York - a winger from Chico? And he's won a regular season main event at Perris..., and was a regular for a while, too.
Shain Mathews ran the Ovals a few years back. as did Andy Forsberg. They've both run with the GSC. While neither did fantastic, they did make the effort.
It takes a special talent to go from a wing car to a non-wing car, as well as a special setup man and crew. It's not an easy switch.....
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I missed those guys, but I think your beginning to understand my point. Indeed, it is not easy; the two Keadings, Bud and Tim, are most definitely exceptions to the rule.
RADROBINLB
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August 04, 2008 at
11:31:39 PM
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This message was edited on
August 04, 2008 at
11:37:38 PM by Tripcrwn
Reply to:
Posted By: sidewayz on August 04 2008 at 02:21:49 PM
You are starting to prove my point. Its pretty amazing that a guy that doesnt run with the wing dang near at all, can take it off, go to the PAS during the Oval Nationals, and be competiteve with those guys. Pretty amazing. Now take Darland, Hines, and those guys and put a wing on them and lets see how they do at the Gold Cup. My beat is they wouldnt be in the show. This is really nothing new, WoO's never changed a rule so a non wing guy could compete, but I remember when USAC use to change rules so that WoO guys couldnt run with them. Wonder what the point of that was?? haha
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The Kaedings, including father Brent, are great racers and are the exception when it comes to taking the wing off. Name some others? When I was younger I watched their father and grandfather Howard take many wins at San Jose Speedway. Darland, Hines and the rest of the national USAC drivers don't need to race with wings. Scheduling, location, competition, traditional car owners, national recognition and the opportunity to move up to NASCAR or Indy are the reasons they race with USAC. If they were to show up at the Gold Cup believe me they would be competitive. For you to make such a statement only shows that you know very little about our great sport. Nothing against the Gold Cup as it is a great event. I used to go to the Gold Cup each year in west Sacramento and watched the great Jan Opperman, Rick Ferkel and Roger Rager in the early beginnings of the Outlaws. Also Gary Patterson, Johnny Anderson, the Horton brothers and Leroy Van Connett. They raced without wings at the time. You might remember them or the Northern Auto Racing Club if you are old enough. As far as USAC changing rules to keep the Outlaws from competing, I can only assume that you know what you're talking about. I am not privileged to that sort of "insider information." But that was yesterday. Today with Kevin Miller at the helm, USAC is making great strides to improve their image and competition.
And finally I find your "Ha, Ha" very juvenile and disturbing. After all we are just having a discussion about a sport we both enjoy. No need to add such a silly comment.
Thanks for the compliment Bruce. I certainly do remember the drivers that you mentioned. I used to watch Mike Andreeta at Stockton 99 in the old open wheel modifieds. He was just starting out. As well as the Horton brothers at Altamont and Calistoga. All the drivers you mentioned were great as far as I am concerned.
"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza" -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS
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August 04, 2008 at
11:56:18 PM
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When was the last time a primarily non-wing driver put on a wing and won a premier winged show? The biggest non-wing show of the last 10 or 15 years was the Mopar Million at Eldora and that was won by a winged driver, Jac Haudenschild, and second place went to a driver who, according to the Open Wheel Times driver search, had never made a non-winged sprint start before and hasn't made one since, Stevie Smith. The top CRA/SCRA drivers of the 1990s and early 2000s had all run wings for a good stretch of time before dominating the non-wing sprints: McSpadden, Griffin, Boat, Shuman and Gardner. I'll put money on a winged driver winning at least 1 night of the upcoming USAC/CRA race at Calistoga, whether it be a Kaeding, Statler, Forsberg, York or someone else.
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August 05, 2008 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: Tripcrwn on August 04 2008 at 11:31:39 PM
The Kaedings, including father Brent, are great racers and are the exception when it comes to taking the wing off. Name some others? When I was younger I watched their father and grandfather Howard take many wins at San Jose Speedway. Darland, Hines and the rest of the national USAC drivers don't need to race with wings. Scheduling, location, competition, traditional car owners, national recognition and the opportunity to move up to NASCAR or Indy are the reasons they race with USAC. If they were to show up at the Gold Cup believe me they would be competitive. For you to make such a statement only shows that you know very little about our great sport. Nothing against the Gold Cup as it is a great event. I used to go to the Gold Cup each year in west Sacramento and watched the great Jan Opperman, Rick Ferkel and Roger Rager in the early beginnings of the Outlaws. Also Gary Patterson, Johnny Anderson, the Horton brothers and Leroy Van Connett. They raced without wings at the time. You might remember them or the Northern Auto Racing Club if you are old enough. As far as USAC changing rules to keep the Outlaws from competing, I can only assume that you know what you're talking about. I am not privileged to that sort of "insider information." But that was yesterday. Today with Kevin Miller at the helm, USAC is making great strides to improve their image and competition.
And finally I find your "Ha, Ha" very juvenile and disturbing. After all we are just having a discussion about a sport we both enjoy. No need to add such a silly comment.
Thanks for the compliment Bruce. I certainly do remember the drivers that you mentioned. I used to watch Mike Andreeta at Stockton 99 in the old open wheel modifieds. He was just starting out. As well as the Horton brothers at Altamont and Calistoga. All the drivers you mentioned were great as far as I am concerned.
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NO WAY Darland and Hines would have a shot to beat a wing guy at the Gold Cup! I love both forms of racing, but to sit here and tell you one of the USAC guy's could do what TK was doing at the Oval Nationals is ludicrous. I'm sorry, the Outlaw guy's stay running Outlaw, because they make alot more damn money on a regular basis. To say they(USAC-Gold Cup) have a chance against them on a track they have run many times is not going to happen. And if you say Brad Sweet.....well he started out in wings and continues to still run them. Let's see about the prestige when it comes to getting a nice payday every so often that's more then what the Outlaws pay on a every race basis then we can talk.
Trophy Cup......Best race of the year hands down!
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August 05, 2008 at
01:44:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HDsmoke20 on August 04 2008 at 11:56:18 PM
When was the last time a primarily non-wing driver put on a wing and won a premier winged show? The biggest non-wing show of the last 10 or 15 years was the Mopar Million at Eldora and that was won by a winged driver, Jac Haudenschild, and second place went to a driver who, according to the Open Wheel Times driver search, had never made a non-winged sprint start before and hasn't made one since, Stevie Smith. The top CRA/SCRA drivers of the 1990s and early 2000s had all run wings for a good stretch of time before dominating the non-wing sprints: McSpadden, Griffin, Boat, Shuman and Gardner. I'll put money on a winged driver winning at least 1 night of the upcoming USAC/CRA race at Calistoga, whether it be a Kaeding, Statler, Forsberg, York or someone else.
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I will take that bet. And by the way Haud ran many many non-wing shows.
"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza" -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS
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August 05, 2008 at
08:15:02 AM
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This message was edited on
August 05, 2008 at
08:16:41 AM by HDsmoke20
Reply to:
Posted By: Tripcrwn on August 05 2008 at 01:44:04 AM
I will take that bet. And by the way Haud ran many many non-wing shows.
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I know Haud has run a lot of non-wing shows, but look at the numbers - according to the Open Wheel Times driver search link, Haud has 130 410 winged wins, and 14 410 non-winged wins. He hasn't run more than 10-12 non-wing shows in a season in 15 or 20 years, as he's been an Outlaw regular most of that time. But, when he does take the wing off, he usually runs up front. You're eager to take my bet, but you never answered my question: when was the last time a primarily non-wing driver put on a wing and won a premier winged show?
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August 05, 2008 at
09:33:29 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HDsmoke20 on August 05 2008 at 08:15:02 AM
I know Haud has run a lot of non-wing shows, but look at the numbers - according to the Open Wheel Times driver search link, Haud has 130 410 winged wins, and 14 410 non-winged wins. He hasn't run more than 10-12 non-wing shows in a season in 15 or 20 years, as he's been an Outlaw regular most of that time. But, when he does take the wing off, he usually runs up front. You're eager to take my bet, but you never answered my question: when was the last time a primarily non-wing driver put on a wing and won a premier winged show?
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Haud's accomplishments should speak for themselves. He is the ONLY driver that has taken the front row challenge (with a wing) and won it. He has won the Mopar Million (without a wing) and has won a ton of races with and without wings in between. I had the pleasure a few years ago watching Jac take the wing off the car, change a few set up items and go run the ultimate challenge with all those full time non wingers and he put on a show.
HDSmoke20: I agree with ya, not very often at all!!!! I would say the best bet there would probably be Bud Kaeding. He has been primarily a non-winged guy up until this year. In my opinion he could win with or without the wing on any given day.
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August 05, 2008 at
12:41:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Tripcrwn on August 04 2008 at 11:31:39 PM
The Kaedings, including father Brent, are great racers and are the exception when it comes to taking the wing off. Name some others? When I was younger I watched their father and grandfather Howard take many wins at San Jose Speedway. Darland, Hines and the rest of the national USAC drivers don't need to race with wings. Scheduling, location, competition, traditional car owners, national recognition and the opportunity to move up to NASCAR or Indy are the reasons they race with USAC. If they were to show up at the Gold Cup believe me they would be competitive. For you to make such a statement only shows that you know very little about our great sport. Nothing against the Gold Cup as it is a great event. I used to go to the Gold Cup each year in west Sacramento and watched the great Jan Opperman, Rick Ferkel and Roger Rager in the early beginnings of the Outlaws. Also Gary Patterson, Johnny Anderson, the Horton brothers and Leroy Van Connett. They raced without wings at the time. You might remember them or the Northern Auto Racing Club if you are old enough. As far as USAC changing rules to keep the Outlaws from competing, I can only assume that you know what you're talking about. I am not privileged to that sort of "insider information." But that was yesterday. Today with Kevin Miller at the helm, USAC is making great strides to improve their image and competition.
And finally I find your "Ha, Ha" very juvenile and disturbing. After all we are just having a discussion about a sport we both enjoy. No need to add such a silly comment.
Thanks for the compliment Bruce. I certainly do remember the drivers that you mentioned. I used to watch Mike Andreeta at Stockton 99 in the old open wheel modifieds. He was just starting out. As well as the Horton brothers at Altamont and Calistoga. All the drivers you mentioned were great as far as I am concerned.
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Hey Trip, I am 32 years old and have been around this sport since I was born. I still have the program of Johnny Anderson in victory lane of the Gold Cup. Well Darland has already been to the elite level of open wheel racing. He was an engineer on front end suspension on the old Indy cars. But to say he could be comptiteve with the WoO at the Gold Cup, well come on. He wouldnt make the show. Some WoO guys dont make the show on Saturday.
USAC changed its rules back in the day. Pancho Carter back in those days. You dont remember?
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August 05, 2008 at
02:07:56 PM
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This message was edited on
August 05, 2008 at
02:21:12 PM by Tripcrwn
Reply to:
Posted By: HDsmoke20 on August 05 2008 at 08:15:02 AM
I know Haud has run a lot of non-wing shows, but look at the numbers - according to the Open Wheel Times driver search link, Haud has 130 410 winged wins, and 14 410 non-winged wins. He hasn't run more than 10-12 non-wing shows in a season in 15 or 20 years, as he's been an Outlaw regular most of that time. But, when he does take the wing off, he usually runs up front. You're eager to take my bet, but you never answered my question: when was the last time a primarily non-wing driver put on a wing and won a premier winged show?
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Jac Haudenschild is of course a great racer. He ran with and without a wing. I would put him in the same category as the Kaedings, but he hardly fits into our discussion because he rarely runs the west coast anymore. As far as your question, I have already answered you. But here it is again. your question is a fantasy because you will never see USAC stars at that great facility. Not unless JPM decides to run a special show early in the year to coincide with the PAS and Manzanita. Traditional car owners and drivers could care less about putting a wing on. They are pure traditionalists. Again, so you understand, the prestige of running with the USAC National series is the reason so many of California's young drivers race USAC. You mentioned Brad Sweet but how about the recently injured Kenny Biro and Darren Hagan, Robert Ballou, Damien Gardner, Shain Mathews, Cole Whitt and more. And you may want to include Arizona's Chad Boat, son of Indy car driver Billy Boat. Sure some of them began with wings, but the opportunities to run non-wing with USAC drove them to Indiana. Why, because of the opportunity for national exposure, the chance to race several times a week, the prestige of racing with USAC and finally a chance to be noticed by one of NASCAR's race teams. Indiana is the hub of sprint car racing in this country. You should know that. And if you are a young driving talent in Northern California your opportunities are only with the GSC or the Civil War series for any type of recognition. There is no non-wing racing in Norcal only several spec series. With the change of Board members with NARC in the 80s and their decision to run wings the opportunities to run traditional sprints went away. Someone on here can correct me if I am wrong. Sure the drivers mentioned in another post ran wing – Gary Patterson was one of them. But non-wing racing in the northern part of our state disappeared. Patterson used to drive south to Ascot to run non wing. Chuck Gurney was one of the great ones and he ended up with USAC and unfortunately was involved in the accident at Terre Haute that ended the great Jan Opperman's career. Gurney was a great driver and realized the opportunities with USAC. His son, Chuck Gurney Jr., another California driver, recently won a USAC midget race at ORP. He also realized that his son's opportunties in racing were in Indiana. The thought of being the next Jeff Gordon or Ryan Newman or your hero Tony Stewart has driven these young drivers to USAC. BTW, as you may know, these three driving stars mentioned above all ran non-wing with USAC before moving to NASCAR with the exception of Stewart who went from USAC to Indy cars prior to his move to the tin tops. How about that? And some of last year's USAC sprint car drivers are now with NASCAR teams. Ricky Stanhouse and Bryan Clauson are two.
Some of California's best young drivers, such as Nic Faas, Shane Golobic and Evan Suggs may have the same ambitions. They are certainly talented.
You may be right about Chico, but I guarantee you that they would be competitive and if Darland and Hines and Levi Jones continued to race at that track it would't take them long to figure it out and be in the winner's circle.With wings on. Their racers and you should understand that. But the last traditional driver to win a wing show? I don't know, I guess you got me. I can only ask you in return when did the last young driver from our state take off and run with the Outlaws. They don't because it is a bad career move and a dead end for their racing careers. Even Sammy Swindell understood this as his young son Kevin raced with the USAC sprinters last year and is racing midgets this year.What Outlaw driver has moved on to bigger things, such as NASCAR or Indy? As far as our bet, you tell me how much and I will be there for two nights of great racing at historic Calistoga.
"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza" -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS
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August 05, 2008 at
03:55:57 PM
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Tripcrwn very nicely put. I dont agree with some of what you said, but I felt what you said. I sometimes get cought up in the now of our sport and how cool winged sprint car racing is and such, that it is nice to see someone with the same passion for the traditional style sprinters. Alot of those drivers you mentioned there I have been fortunate enough to see them race without the wing, but just something about the speeds of the winged cars excites the heck out me! Tripcrwn I am really looking forward to the race at stoga at the end of the month!
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August 05, 2008 at
06:13:39 PM
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Thank you very much sidewayz. I understand your passion. I grew up with wing racing too. West Captial, San Jose Speedway and 99 Speedway. Only they were called "super modifieds" then. And I was there at Calistoga several times when NARC ran without wings. I understand that they are much faster with a wing, it just that now since I have moved south that my passion is with the traditional sprint cars. Thanks again for your kind remarks and I will buy you a beer at Calistoga. After all we both like sprinters.
"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza" -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS
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August 05, 2008 at
07:54:29 PM
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Haud is among the best, with or without the wing, I'm not arguing that point. The way he pushes any car he races to the edge speaks for itself. The point I was making was the same as what Sidewayz said at the top of this page - "Its pretty amazing that a guy that doesnt run with the wing dang near at all, can take it off, go to the PAS during the Oval Nationals, and be competiteve with those guys." Haud wasn't running non-wing regularly when he won the Mopar Million and Stevie Smith's 2nd place was the first and last non-wing race he ever won. As far as the young guns running USAC because of the prestige & tradition - please! They are running that series because they want to be the next Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart and get a NASCAR ride. There are lots of non-wing races in Indiana, but hardly a majority of them are USAC sanctioned. No less an expert than Kevin Eckert said that "USAC sprint cars essentially race once a month". As for Outlaw drivers making it to NASCAR, Dave Blaney has done a good job. And, go tell Jason Meyers, Tyler Walker, Tim Kaeding and Paul McMahan that leaving California for a World of Outlaws ride dead ended their career. Listen, I love any kind of sprint racing. My favorite all-time driver won a lot of winged races, but then moved to non-wing and won even more - the Gasman, Richard Griffin. For about 5 years straight, I went to almost every non-wing sprint show at Manzanita. For the last few years, I've taken my son to Placerville and Chico and we've enjoyed the winged cars. My point was simply that winged guys can take off the wing and run non-wing shows and more than hold their own, yet non-wing guys are unwilling and or unable to put the wing on and be competitive. I'll be at Calistoga for at least 1 night and will enjoy the race because it's a sprint car race.
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August 05, 2008 at
10:20:53 PM
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This message was edited on
August 05, 2008 at
10:31:53 PM by Tripcrwn
I never said all of Indiana was USAC. It isn't and as a matter of fact they have very few races left in their schedule due to Indiana Midget Week, local shows and some silver crown races. There is no way that you can get around the fact that young drivers in this state are heading back to Indiana to race for the reasons I stated before. A young James Sweeney just left to be back there to run Midget Week. Anyway you are probably right it is easier to take the wing off and run than to put one on and learn the differences. I can tell those drivers that you mentioned, but I think they already know. Their is no line of progression running with the Outlaws. Only high ticket prices and slot car racing. How can a family be expected to pay those prices to see their show? According to recent reports the Outlaws are in serious financial trouble and with just a few teams involved in their budget busting travel schedule, maybe some teams will be bailing soon. As far as TK goes, and I have stated this before but somehow you keep forgetting that I mentioned it, he is an exceptional driver and very capable of winning at any track without the wing. Tonight he is struggling to make the A main back in the midwest in a $30K race. Oh and its a traditional sprint car show put on by one of the Outlaw's drivers. Go figure. Ricky Gaunt may have been the last traditional driver to put on a wing and win @ a GSC race held in Santa Maria years ago.
"Ralphie, Senor, muchas gracias por una mas cerveza" -
Scott Daloisio @ the PAS
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August 05, 2008 at
10:50:32 PM
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This message was edited on
August 05, 2008 at
10:53:03 PM by henry chinaski
Reply to:
Posted By: Tripcrwn on August 05 2008 at 10:20:53 PM
I never said all of Indiana was USAC. It isn't and as a matter of fact they have very few races left in their schedule due to Indiana Midget Week, local shows and some silver crown races. There is no way that you can get around the fact that young drivers in this state are heading back to Indiana to race for the reasons I stated before. A young James Sweeney just left to be back there to run Midget Week. Anyway you are probably right it is easier to take the wing off and run than to put one on and learn the differences. I can tell those drivers that you mentioned, but I think they already know. Their is no line of progression running with the Outlaws. Only high ticket prices and slot car racing. How can a family be expected to pay those prices to see their show? According to recent reports the Outlaws are in serious financial trouble and with just a few teams involved in their budget busting travel schedule, maybe some teams will be bailing soon. As far as TK goes, and I have stated this before but somehow you keep forgetting that I mentioned it, he is an exceptional driver and very capable of winning at any track without the wing. Tonight he is struggling to make the A main back in the midwest in a $30K race. Oh and its a traditional sprint car show put on by one of the Outlaw's drivers. Go figure. Ricky Gaunt may have been the last traditional driver to put on a wing and win @ a GSC race held in Santa Maria years ago.
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Man your sounding really clueless. Go look at hoseheads live and see how TK is doing back at OSKY. He is in the 7th starting spot ahead of your non wing heros. He started 8th in his heat race and finished 4th! Then in the qualifier race he went from 4th starting spot to 2nd! He finished ahead of Bret Mellenberndt, Brady Short, Brady Bacon, Shane Cottle, Casey Shuman. If you call that struggling you cant even buy a clue! TK is the man in a wing or non wing and at least he has the balls to race both unlike the "purest primadonnas" or traditionalists as you call them. I actually like all types of sprint car racing but you are making non wing fans look pretty damn foolish. -- Oh yeah and one more thing, TK happened to finish 3rd last night against some stout competition and he started the main in 9th place! Good God man help yourself!
Cheers!
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