Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I am disapointed in Knoxville. People continually wonder why attendence continues to drop and why the interest in the local shows is slipping. The reason is the fact that, as a fan, there is no reason to get excited for a Saturday night. Why is the May 19 show any different than the July17 show? It will be the same guys coming and racing the same format every Saturday. I am a racing purist and would show up every Saturday night if I could, but I am not the average fan. Instead, the average fan wants a reason to be excited to come. So does the average racer. They want to get "up" for that big money show that gives them the opportunity to be in the spotlight.

Williams Grove has mastered the art of "big shows" with 4 $5,000 to win shows and 1 $10,000 to win show...just for the locals. The does not count the Outlaw appearances.

Where are you Knoxville??? Yes, its true that you put on the biggest race of the year, and it puts money in the bank for every local driver that shows up. You have a great pointfund and contingencies. But sprintcar guys don't show up for the pointfund. They race for glory. So give your local guys a chance. Don't just have your "big shows" be sanctioned by the Outlaws. In looking back, rarely do more than 4-5 guys qualify for the Outlaw shows. Its time to give your local guys a chance to win $5,000. Put together a "mini speedweek" with the big show being $7,500 to win at Knoxville for your guys. Have a "Prelude to the Nationals" and have it the week after the Kings Royal. Pay 10,000 to win and invite the All Stars(God knows they need dates) Reward you teams with the chance to win some big money and then promote the heck out of it so guys from Minnesota, Illinois and Missouri who are sprint car fans have a reason to come down.

Knoxville, you're still the greatest. You bring us all the best and biggest weekend of racing every year. Even though your recent Late Model success makes us want to cry, we still love everything you do. But in this season of giving, give your fans and driver more...

The All Stars will have "Thunder Through the Plains" the week prior to the Knoxville Nationals this coming season. $5,000 to win each night with four or five races including a race at the Belleville High Banks on Thursday night of the Bellevile Nationals. This is a good opportunity to race for some good money.

Would it not be great to have five, six, seven nights of racing, perhaps sanctioned by the All Stars, leading up to Nationals week? Maybe even including the Saturday at Knoxville before Nationals? At least five grand to win each night? It would be a real shot in the arm for sprint car racing in the region.

410 sprint car racing needs to look at a regional approach, especially in the Midwest. Pennsylvania has good paying Speedweeks and other events. Attica and Fremont are trying to work together in Ohio. The All Stars bring in good paying purses in both PA and Ohio.

Would Knoxville be interested? Maybe, if Knoxville can benefit from working with the other tracks and groups to spark increased interest in the sport. If Knoxville can bring in the IRA and USAC midgets, why not bring in the All Stars for an increased purse for the local teams? Maybe even the Midwest All Stars for a regular purse?

I know Knoxville remains committed to the 360 Nationals. The racing attracts plenty of cars and good drivers but still, few fans, until the final night when there is also a full 410 program. How does this help 410 racing and the other tracks in the region?  Maybe a series of 410 races leading up to Nationals would draw quality local drivers from around the country and they would stick around for the Nationals. I know there is politics involved in making something like this work and there would need to be cooperation with tracks all over the country to insure participation but aren't we all concerned about how to make 410 racing better for everyone?

This I know...in Knoxville Raceway and the All Stars, you have two of the most influencial and biggest names in 410 sprint car racing. Somehow, if these two entities can work together on such a project, 410 sprint car racing can be the beneficiary.

It is too bad Bert and Bridgett don't still own the All Stars.

Agreed sprintfan. There is no love lost between the Knoxville director and Webb.

It does not have to be the All Stars. It would be great to see Knoxville do the same with the IRA. Either way, I think it is important that Knoxville find ways to promote their locals. They have some really great teams and drivers with Alley and Brown. The downfall is, they can't make enough money to want to stay. They all leave because there is more money to be made elsewhere.

I would agree that Fremont and Attica have done a great job of building a good working relationship, as have the Central PA tracks.

Agreed here too sprintfan, "Americas Series" is certainly not what it was when Bert had it. I can't see Knoxville having anything to do with the A-stars. The Stars don't have much of a following once they leave the Ohio area. I'm sure the A-stars would love to book a few dates at Knoxville, they would stand to gain from it. On the other hand I can't see any benefit Knoxville would have by having any of the A-star shows. As far as the MASS series running there, I sure can't see that ever happening.

Much of the premise of the original post had to do with getting the purse up a little. This would benefit the local racers.The All Stars pay $5000 to win and $500 to start the A Main. The local teams at Knoxville and the All Stars would be pretty compeitive. Imagine Blaney, Wilson, McMahan, Blonde and Martin against Brown, Zomer, Dobmeier, Landis, Jeffrey, Alley, Gharst and others looking for a good paying race to cash in on.

There are changes happening across the board in sprint car racing. New people, new personalities. Nothing against the IRA, which is a fine club-style series, but what do they bring to a date at Knoxville that would trump the All Stars?

I suggest, if it is the case that problems exist, that Knoxville and the All Stars work together to improve the Midwest racing scene. It's a small world and everybody needs to work together.

twelve car inversion...

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

man even in Knoxville just this year when we was talkin you said multiple times that the Knoxville 360 Nationals is one of the most underrated races of the year. the 360 nationals have been a part of the Southern Iowa Sprintweek for what 3 years now. and the 1st of that year was pretty much by accident due to the rainout of the June version. So only 2 real 360 nationals races held in August. and ever since it was moved to August the attendance has only grown. maybe not leaps and bounds yet. but everyone knows it will continue to grow. with all things considered - too many it trumps the 410 nat. or at least has on occasion. in 2006 many said the 360's were better (and there was like 20 more of em - including the sat. night 410 show during the 360's that adds another 50) and last year EVERYBODY said there was something missing from the 410 nationals. and I thought the 360 nationals were awesome especially the first couple of night - after that the overwhelming heat with no wind and high humidity did take a toll. but still great.

It was great talkin with you up at Knoxville this year and I think you're a cool guy and pretty damn smart as well. you know your racing better than most. but what you are proposing there directly steps on the toes (so to speak) of the 360 Nationals. with the intent of it as well. However you slice it that is an awesome race - there is a good reason why everyone says it is the most underrated race in the nation. because one day soon it will not be. I know what you are implying by politics - but the 360 nationals certainly should not be affected by those politics. the fewer series races held (360 or 410) during the 360 nationals the better for that show. it will only continue to grow. especially if the disappointment (so to speak) of the 410 nationals remains. The only thing I'm really in favor of changing about the best 4 days of racing I see a year - by 4 days I'm talkin the 360 Knoxville races not the 410 - is the Brodix ToC. My pop and I think that race should be run on Thursday with the 360 Nationals preliminaries being run is split fashion ALL on Friday - and then the 360 finale and 410 show saturday - with sunday being a rain date. because after the bad ass saturday show with all 150 sprints in the pits - the sunday 50 in the pits is kind of a letdown. don't get me wrong - it;s sprint car racing - it's Knoxville - so it's bad ass. But I don't think the Brodix race should follow the saturday night. If anything - it should kick it all off.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

OKC...what I said was that it had the best field of 360 racers in the country but people don't attend the show. And, therefore, 360 racing is not the answer. I am now and always have been in favor of 410 racing over 360's in any shape or form. If there was a series of good-paying 410 races in the Midwest during the week when the 360 Nationals were going on, I'd give my wholehearted support to the 410's. If there was an opportunity to get five more tracks involved with 410 races and bring more local racers to the Midwest for these and the Knoxville 410 Nationals, it would benefit sprint car racing.

this is a conversation or debate (however one may see it) that I enjoy having with you - because as you know - I'm on the other side of that fence. I like the 360's. although as was stated at the 360 Nat's I don't see a lot of 410 racing - and if I really want to get technical - non-wings are better than all of it, but.....................

What you are proposing/thinkin of there could be done at a different time than the 360 Nationals. A post or press release - I think from Lonnie Wheatley - mentioned a "triple crown" of 360 racing. The King of the 360's - the Knoxville 360 Nationals - and the Short Track Nationals. 3 big shows. no toes should get stepped on there IMO. Also how would that 410 deal work during the 360 Nationals? The WoO already run that weekend - usually in Beaver Dam, WI. Minus that show there would be even more 360 entrants - although on the other hand a lot of attempted cherry-pickin as well. But still having more 410 races in the area just splits fields even more...................I don't see where that benefits sprint car racing. What many 410 and 360 series have in common (outside WoO) is that to gain respectable car counts they have to have a healthy contingent of "locals". with presumable 3 big race weekends over the same general area - makes for some split fields. all 3 would probably still be good shows - but take 1 of those races out - and the other 2 do even better . I would think the week before the 360 nationals or earlier would be a good thought that could benefit your idea at a loss to none. WOuldn't it be a better idea to run something like all-stars or a speedweek at another time when there are no other big races in the area? Just because some don't like 360's doesn;t mean an effort should be made to run against em (goes for both really). both 360's and 410's can co-exist and even compliment each other. I know you are not the biggest fan of the world of 360's - and I fully understand and in some ways can agree - but I think really the Knoxville 360 Nat's are a hell of race - that as time continues on people wake up - will make plans to see 10 great nights of racing. and with car counts, speed, and overall track prep considered - the Knoxville 360 Nat's are even better than the STN. although STN doesn;t use time trials - a big + IMO. but then again - Knoxville runs the 410's on sat. of the 360 finale - making it probably the best single night of racing I see every year. anyhow what I'm meaning is that if continued in good fashion the 360 Nat's attendance will get bigger and bigger.................

I'm just failing to see where 360's and 410's should ever run against each other. and thats for either side in the situation. many similarities between the 2. namely COSTS. outrageous in both. both make the 305's a coming thing big time. lots of similarities. sanctioning bodies in both don't do much to address costs. but before I get into the death of the blue collar racer and the rise of the Gillette young gun with deep pocket parents - I need to crash. but just as at the 360 Nat's last year - I enjoy this particular racing "debate"............................

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

People knocking the weekly Knoxville racing??? A weekly K-ville show is better than ANY show in the state of Florida including the WoO at the Volusia Winter Hard Slick Nationals. Some don't realize haw good they have it.

Here's a few of my thoughts on the original post:

-Why would Knoxville raise the purse for a special weekend or whatever when the same 20 guys are going to show up anyway? The guys that race there weekly don't really travel, so it's not like Knoxville has to keep dangling a bone to keep them there. Like everyone else that wants a deal, why pay more than you have to.

-Concerning a speedweek. Until Iowans are ravenous and can't get enough of sprint cars I don't see many new sprint shows happening. Knoxville claims they lose money all year with exception of the Nationals. So why have more shows? We have a southern IA speedweek that does well, but the audience is nation (and world) wide and these folks are hardcore. They have also made this a vacation.

-Drawing more cars. As long as the tires are as good as they are and the cars are locked down hard, we won't see a lot of new folks popping in. The IRA guys have brought tons of cars with them in the past, but only a couple were competitive at Knoxville. -12 heads just can't compete at Knoxville anymore with the tires (and wings) being that good.

-Promotor competition. It will also be hard to draw in new cars when other promotors schedule point races every Saturday night. I can't blame them though. What track wants to lose some of their cars even if it's just for a weekend or two? Smart promotors do everything they can to keep their locals there. That's why you see 305's with rolller cams and steel wheels in OH and 360's with steel heads at Huset's. When your car is tailored to the track you run, you won't be legal anywhere else. You're stuck there.

-Same old story. If tracks can put more butts in the stands, a lot of the points above become moot. More cash coming in solves a lot of problems, but we've all hashed this one before!!

www.Numbersusa.com  

"special" shows are a way of raising the admission price for the spectator.

Tracks, such as Knoxville have "burned out" their fans by having too many races during the season.

I used to look forward to the season to open on the first saturday in May, and hated it when the Saturday show of the Nationals was over, so was the season.

I for one would like to see other venues on occasion also.

This is the primary reason for my "retirement" from a position in Knoxville I held with near perfect attendence, for 17 years.

Knoxville, ya just plain and simple, burned me out.

Save your butt, get a colon screening TODAY

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Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

retired?

yup/

still available as needed, but no longer an every night regular.

I will have to add, the fact that Knoxville insisted on taking 2 races away from us and shoved late models down our throats, was the straw that broke the camels back.

Knoxville used to be the sprint car capitol of the world, but with guidance that they foolishly had (bye-bye Bruce), they were able to speed up the burn out.

In 6 years of dealing with Cancer, and the nasty issues they gave, I will miss seeing my friends each night.

I am not giving up racing, or even sprint cars, just Knoxville on a never miss basis.

Save your butt, get a colon screening TODAY

For complete line of Sponsor Awards check out 
MarshallTownLaser.com

Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

The fans get burned out by too many races at Knoxville? The season is only four months long. I don't know why it works here in central PA to start the season with snow on the ground in late February and race every week until late October except to say that the fans have been conditioned to expect racing eight months a year.

I would agree with all of the posts about why they don't need to have a special show. However, I am not asking them to do it as a bottom line money in/money out proposition. I am asking them to look at it from the standpoint that they need to continue to promote 410 racing, or will suffer due to continually decreasing car counts.

It seems, much like Late Model racing, that there are more and more teams out there who have 410 motors that only run them for big shows. A "prelude to the nationals" 2-day 410 only program without the Outlaws might be a gib enough draw to pick up some MO cars, SD cars and maybe even a couple of Grand Forks cars that you don't usually see in Knoxville. It might give those guys a chance to get out and run Knoxville prior to the Nationals. Look at what the Keystone Cup series did for Williams Grove. It provides a time when the part time guys all target and show up for due to the increased start money and the event prestige. Plus it can also be an event that sponsors want to be at as well.

I think we are all glad the previous administratioin is gone, and so are the money losing LM shows with the exception of the Natl.

Isn't this fun....

What I'm hearing is that the tracks that promote the All Stars have no problem with the purse structure...it's the sanction fee of $8000 that goes to Webb. This goes toward show-up money and personnel...but I think it props up their point fund as well. Regardless, most tracks think it's a little steep for what you get...

sprinty11...In general, what you are saying is true. The sanction fee is an issue with some promoters. As you said, a good chunk of that goes back into tow money, personnel and other series business. That said, the Outlaws get $25K for a sanction fee. Tracks seem to pony up that money to bring in the show. That's fine if they can get it because promoters obviously think the WoO is worth the investment. I guess the bottom line is this...a show costs so much to put on, adding it all up with sanctioon fee, purse, advertising, ect. If the series just came in and said "here's the bottom line on what it takes to bring our series to your track" without itemizing everything out, what difference does it make, whether it be $40k or 80k or whatever. The real bottom line is this...what is the level of investment/risk that you are willing to take? Can you make money with this show?

Why is it so important what Webb or the WoO put in their respective coffers as long as the promoter makes money, the drivers race for a good purse and the fans get their moneys's worth?

After all, we are not communists here...or even today's version of the mainstream Democrat.

OKC fan, take the 410's out of the Saturday night show or move the 360 nationals to any other date and guess what? Noboby shows up in the stands. I say get rid of the 360's and put the money into the 410 division. Have bigger paying 410 shows to keep guys from moving to the Woo. It seems to work in PA.