Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Steve is the best sprintcar driver ever.

Kyle is the most versatile driver I have seen since the mid 80's.  Maybe ever?  He wins in anything he drives!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Unless 95 pound Rico Abreau beats 135 pound heavyweight Kyle Larson at every race they are both in, you're theory is jacked. Please continue to work on your trolling skills.

It is possible by the time Kyle's career is over, we may see him as the best sprintcar driver ever.  I know Steve's 690 wins will never be broken, so many hold onto this as the reason no one can ever possibly be as good, or better, than him.  I think that's nonsense.  I do, however, think you are correct at this point, but Larson is still in his early-30's and time will tell if he drives more, or less sprint car races over the next 15 years.  I don't think Kyle has to get anywhere close to 690 wins, or 200 for that matter, in order for us to possibly say, somewhere down the road, that he's the best sprintcar driver ever.  Once again, not there yet.  Just saying, IMO, the numbers aren't going to be my measuring stick.  As a matter of fact, IMO, I think those claiming Donny is the greatest of all time have a legit argument.

I think he  is a once in a generation talent for sure no doubt. But is he better than Foyt or Parnelli, Mario yet? Them guys checked off a lot of boxes that Kyle hasn't yet. But he's in his prime right now and that time will be in NASCAR because that's where the top money still is.

I'm old enough to have seen Steve Kinser drive a non wing sprint car in the early 1980's.  If you missed it, I feel for your loss, it defied words.   I am also lucky enough to have seen Kyle Larson do incredible things in every type of race car, especially sprints and midgets.  I would love somehow to watch those two in their prime in  few match races, it would be spectacular

"checked off a lot of boxes that Kyle hasn't yet"----a lot of boxes is a little bit of an exaggeration.  Also, Kyle has checked off some boxes Foyt, Mario, and Parnelli never checked off.  (some because those races didn't exist yet or were in a different form)  Tough to compare different generations of racing.  

Also, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, no one bring up Kyle not winning the Daytona 500.  (I know you didn't Parnelli, but I know someone will) That race is the farthest thing from a crown jewel race since 1988 when they handicapped it.  Need proof:  Trever Bayne, Austin Cindric, Michael McDowell, Austin Dillon, Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope.  There's a who's who of racing royalty.  What a pile of garbage that has become.  Winning the Southern 500, or a road course race is a far bigger accomplishment than winning a pile of garbage Daytona, Talledega, or now Atlanta race.  

I agree about the Daytona race my point was the three names I brought up all won on dirt and all won in Open wheel and stock cars and all three won crown jewel events including Indy 500s with Foyt winning at Lemans and Mario an F1 championship pretty big boxes to check. But I agree also the times we are in are way different but when someone says the most versatile driver ever? Like I said Kyle is a once in a generation talent no doubt. But NASCAR commitments will keep him from showing what he could do in other forms of the sport.

Hey Sarge,

Are we allowed to bring it up if he DOES win the Daytona 500 ?

You have to agree on a definition of BEST first, which is not going to happen. Maybe AI has a possibility of allowing all the historical faves to race each other. 

Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

You're allowed to do anything.  Winning Daytona means nothing other than being in the right place at the right time for a large check.  Nothing to do with speed of the car at all--all cars handicapped to the same speed.   All drivers handicapped to the speed of the car in front of and/or behind them. Teams working with teams of the same "brand" (this still makes me laugh, because there are no brands in nascar--just kit cars) has a bigger influence than actually building speed in the car and drivers hitting their marks.   There are no marks to hit---just don't hit the spinning car in front of you and hope and pray you're in the line of 15 cars that's going the fastest.  A complete luck race to win as proven by the long list of nobodies that have won it, and can win nothing else.  (ahem Michael Waltrip and Trevor Bayne)   Then, if you do luck out and have the lead with a 1/2 lap to go, get ready to be upside down flying past the fence because there are now going to be 10-12 cars driving through the car in front of them with no regard for safety of their fellow drivers or the money spent on equipment by the owners.  Nascar puts them in the position, so not their fault, but "rabid" Nascar fans continue to watch what has just turned into the biggest pile of garbage in racing over the past 35 years. 

The nascar season starts on week 3 at the Circuit of the Americas for anyone interested in watching an actual race vs. WWE fabricated entertainment.  Nascar isn't my favorite, and if there's ice fishing to be done, I'll be there instead.  However, if stuck in the house all day, I'll turn on the race on week 3.  The first 2 weeks are can't watch "races" for me.  

I don't disagree with you that the sample size won't be as big because of other commitments, so we may have to throw shear numbers aside and grade with our eyes vs. stats.  Also, I know you never brought up Daytona, but I was just pointing out that people will talk about other drivers successes at Daytona and Kyle's lack of success.  Different Daytona.  Daytona of today is of no consequence on grading driver talent.  

You bring up good points by the way.  

Winning Daytona in the cars they have today compared to winning with a 60s or 70s era car is no comparison those cars were beasts with monster motors in big heavy cars. When they put in restricter plates it was ruined. I believe Kyle can win in anything he gets into and quickly because he seems to adapt to everything thrown his way. 

I don't think Larson will ever receive the hate or the booing that Kinser and Shatz enjoyed. Another post stated that he just doesn't run enough dirt track races for fans to care much, I'll agree with that. I'll also agree that the dude is a once in a generation kind of talent, just unreal, he can win in anything with a steering wheel and tires it seems. I do get tired of seeing him win sometimes but his car control in anything cannot be denied, and damn he gets lucky sometimes too. I joke that he might be from another planet because I've never seen anything like him.

Steve Kinser will forever be the King of Sprint Cars, not larson. Here are some reasons:  690+ wins does mean something, WoO championships, Knoxville Nat wins, Kings Royals, Natty opens, etc....... Big time event wins and lots of them. 690+ wins also refers to DECADES of up and down the road and across the country winning amongst the elite constantly. Kyle and Paul don't do that, never have and never will. Yes Martha technology has changed, Steve drove cars that just didn't have the comforts todays cars and drivers have, shock tech, tire tech, seat tech are just a few things that make today's cars easier to drive. How about power steering, how many people think kyle could have out muscled The King in any race?

I like Kyle, I think he is pretty awesome and look forward to more of his racing accomplishments, but being King of the Sprint Cars....No Way!

All good points and hard to disagree with 90% of it.  Yes, the 690 wins does mean something.  However, no one will even ever have the chance to beat this again with today's car and the number of teams with deep pockets.  So, does someone have to get to 691 before we can say he's better?  I say absolutely not.  The 690 doesn't necessarily get thrown out the window, but we can't compare apples (Kinser's WoO era) to oranges (the past 15 years).  In my mind, folks would have a great argument in saying Donny's career is more impressive.  Not sure they'd be right, but the argument could be made and he was only in the 300's.  The equipment in the 5th-10th best cars to show up at the Knoxville Nationals back in the 80's is NO WHERE NEAR the equipment that shows up in the 5th-10th best cars today.  That's not even an argument.  

You make some great points, but I'm not stuck on the 690 wins as being the only factor.  A driver is someday going to be considered a better talent, and they will not even have the opportunity to get to 690 again.  Much like Richard Petty---there are many great talents considered better than him but no one will ever have the chance again at 200. 

The Daytona 500 is STILL a crown jewel race.  It still pays the most money and is probably the biggest race in the country yet.  Is it a joke of a race anymore?  Yes I would agree with that.  But we don't get to decide what a crown jewel race is.  

Ok--"crown jewel" paying race.  Terrible measuring stick for driver accomplishment.  It takes more talent to win at 20 other tracks.  To me, Jeff Gordon's 9 wins at Martinsville are a much better measuring stick of his talent than his wins at Daytona (Boogity Boogity Boogity) drafting with other Chevys.