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Topic: Annual, traditional Knoxville Nats format discussion
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Page 3 of 5 of 82 replies
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August 09, 2024 at
02:05:33 PM
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This message was edited on
August 09, 2024 at
02:52:15 PM by Parnelli1970
Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on August 09 2024 at 01:54:08 PM
Larson would be eligible for the midweek series but he will miss one race. He is an owner of the HL. He runs when he can with the HL. Where I am from everyone I talk to says Larson is a HL driver.
Common sense would tell you that....but common sense isn't very common!
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Why is this so important to you? I'm from Pa just like you. I pull for Pa drivers whether it be Marks ,Schuhart or Macri I don't care who they run with. Affiliation means nothing.
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August 09, 2024 at
02:29:59 PM
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We should do the HL/WoO after the field is set after hard knox night and Sat. nights B main finish.
I'm just glad to be back here for about my 10th year in a row, 2 weeks of great racing!
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August 09, 2024 at
03:30:57 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Johnny Utah on August 09 2024 at 12:12:28 PM
I used your format of everything being equal but changing the A main position difference to four points. I did the top 35.
2024 Altered Format- A main lock-ins
1-5- Larson, Pittman, Courtney, Ca. Macedo, Scelzi
6-10- Abreu, Allen (+9), Randall (+7), Marks (+3), Balog (+3)
11-16- Bogucki (-1), Brown (-5), Bacon (-4), Macri (-6), Peck (+3), Day (-5)
Notes: Mark and Balog came down to the 3rd tiebreaker which is 2nd qualifying lap. Didnt look those up, just put Marks ahead. Only guy to jump in from outside the current top-16 is Peck. He replaces Sheldon.
Saturday B-main lock-ins
17-20- Sweet, Haudenschild (-4), Zearfoss (+6), McFadden (-1)
21-26- Eliason (-1), Reutzel (+5), Gravel (-1), Wise (+4), Williamson (-2), Juhl (-7)
Notes: Reutzel and Wise move in. Zomer and Henry fall out.
The Rest
27-30- Zomer (-3), Kahne (+1), Schuerenberg (+4), Price-Miller (+4)
31-35- C. McCarl (+1), Henry (-6), Sams (+2), K. Madsen (-4), Holmes (-4)
Could someone from the outside the top 35 jump in? Sure. I wasnt doing all that though. I still think the format is fine, but wouldn't be bothered if they did this too. Also, the way they give points for the C-Main guys, if you keep dropping by four, you'd run out of numbers, so there'd need to be some alterations to it.
Fun to look at though.
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Wow, nice work. Very interesting. I like that Juhl gets moved down since he didn't go too well in the feature. I'd be ok with this. A 25 lap performance in theory should matter more than a heat or TT.
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August 09, 2024 at
04:47:37 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on August 09 2024 at 01:54:08 PM
Larson would be eligible for the midweek series but he will miss one race. He is an owner of the HL. He runs when he can with the HL. Where I am from everyone I talk to says Larson is a HL driver.
Common sense would tell you that....but common sense isn't very common!
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You are right, Kyle should talk to the HL folks and get them to change the HL rule book to allow for being at most of the races to maintain the member in good standing portion of the rulebook, for him at least, that way the rule book would be in line with your opinion and the people who you talk to's opinions. Rule books are just suggestions anyway (see USAC thread about weight added forward of the front axle).
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August 09, 2024 at
06:23:19 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on August 09 2024 at 09:17:56 AM
There is this weird pride thing about the track prep. Its like they are willing to make Wednesday worse in order to say "look how good we are, we never had to bring the grader out once". I'd sit through grader races later in the week if it meant the Wednesday cushion was up by the fence.
As far as format goes, I think feature finishing positions should be worth 4 points instead of two. If I get bored next week at work I'll see if I can do some math to see how it would have turned out. One lap on a track by yourself shouldn't count as much as 25 laps against 23 other competitors.
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If you did that, then there shouldn't be a feature invert. You can't invert a guy to the pole and give him more feature points for finishing 5th than a guy that started farther back and passed some cars to finish 6th. Everyone likes inverts but you can't gift them points for finishing towards the front when they were inverted there.
In the past I was in favor of tweaking the format to maybe a 6 heat race invert instead of 8, but the bottom line is that there is no perfect format and this one works pretty well. There's no way to factor luck or track conditions out of the equation and you have to balance out the inverts so they are fair to the racers, but still provide good entertainment value for the fans. The current format is OK and I think the biggest improvement they ever made was changing the Friday format into a full show with the top 4 qualifying for Saturday's A main.
A
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August 09, 2024 at
08:53:07 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on August 09 2024 at 09:30:09 AM
Its not then number of points, its the difference in points per position. You could award 100,000 for quick time and 99,998 for second and it would have turned out the same.
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Exactly... However, one other factor: There are more entries in overall qualifying than in each heat, so a guy qualifying 50th (or whatever is last) is a lot further behind in points than a guy finishing 8th or 10th in a heat
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August 09, 2024 at
09:48:32 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: armyduke on August 09 2024 at 04:47:37 PM
You are right, Kyle should talk to the HL folks and get them to change the HL rule book to allow for being at most of the races to maintain the member in good standing portion of the rulebook, for him at least, that way the rule book would be in line with your opinion and the people who you talk to's opinions. Rule books are just suggestions anyway (see USAC thread about weight added forward of the front axle).
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No need to change the rule book, because he is a HL driver!
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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August 09, 2024 at
09:59:55 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on August 09 2024 at 09:48:32 PM
No need to change the rule book, because he is a HL driver!
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Hey, Strawsie, I started this thread about the format
Then YOU hijacked it into HL vs. WoO
Perfectly legitimate subject, so start another thread
But "is Larson HL" is one of the dumbest arguments ever... have at it, on ANOTHER PAGE
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August 09, 2024 at
10:01:16 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 09 2024 at 06:23:19 PM
If you did that, then there shouldn't be a feature invert. You can't invert a guy to the pole and give him more feature points for finishing 5th than a guy that started farther back and passed some cars to finish 6th. Everyone likes inverts but you can't gift them points for finishing towards the front when they were inverted there.
In the past I was in favor of tweaking the format to maybe a 6 heat race invert instead of 8, but the bottom line is that there is no perfect format and this one works pretty well. There's no way to factor luck or track conditions out of the equation and you have to balance out the inverts so they are fair to the racers, but still provide good entertainment value for the fans. The current format is OK and I think the biggest improvement they ever made was changing the Friday format into a full show with the top 4 qualifying for Saturday's A main.
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Pretty much how I feel, tho I just started this thread by suggesting they cut the invert to 6.... 
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August 09, 2024 at
10:13:23 PM
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Like the man said, no perfect format. I even like the Chili Bowl format & the old Allstar format
Just interesting to speculate about it
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August 10, 2024 at
11:25:15 AM
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This message was edited on
August 10, 2024 at
01:19:13 PM by Murphy
Reply to:
Posted By: BStrawser26 on August 09 2024 at 09:48:32 PM
No need to change the rule book, because he is a HL driver!
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Larson "identifies" as High Limit, and that's enough for you and the people you talk to.
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August 10, 2024 at
12:02:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: armyduke on August 09 2024 at 04:47:37 PM
You are right, Kyle should talk to the HL folks and get them to change the HL rule book to allow for being at most of the races to maintain the member in good standing portion of the rulebook, for him at least, that way the rule book would be in line with your opinion and the people who you talk to's opinions. Rule books are just suggestions anyway (see USAC thread about weight added forward of the front axle).
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(Also, see the HL rules about being weighed after winning a race).
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August 10, 2024 at
12:45:03 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: sprintfanatic on August 10 2024 at 12:02:28 PM
(Also, see the HL rules about being weighed after winning a race).
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The format is fine and lapped traffic will enter in. Schatz from the rear along with Logan will be interesting . Larson and Pittman will have a headstart but anything can happen. From a spectators view like to see Larson start 24th .50 laps is a long race for sprint cars and mandatory red changes things. 40 laps with no stop would involve more fuel and tire management. No WOO or HL ali have same goal to race for big money.
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August 10, 2024 at
05:49:31 PM
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Reply to:
For those new to sprint car racing at the upper levels: the cars are all weighed after time trials. Then, the one that matter are weighed, generally the first three finishers.
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August 10, 2024 at
09:40:53 PM
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How do they line up the races for sat? Is it points from Wed and Thursday or do Friday races affect Sat line ups?
Even though I may not know you, I
care what most of you think!
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August 11, 2024 at
12:11:28 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on August 10 2024 at 09:40:53 PM
How do they line up the races for sat? Is it points from Wed and Thursday or do Friday races affect Sat line ups?
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Rod, if you're seriously asking - Friday's top four finishers now comprise places 21-24 in Saturday's A Main. Friday's positions 5 back line up Saturday's B Main from 11th place on, in order. So fifth in Friday's A starts 11th in Saturday's B behind the 26 prelim lock ins and top four Friday lock ins.
Previous Nationals format saw the top 50 after prelims lock in and non-qualifiers night ran a full program to set position 11 in Saturday's C Main on back.
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August 11, 2024 at
12:24:29 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on August 10 2024 at 09:40:53 PM
How do they line up the races for sat? Is it points from Wed and Thursday or do Friday races affect Sat line ups?
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Perfectly good question, cause Knoxville's website doesn't explain it. They say who makes the A, but not how they line up. The best explanation is in that little newspaper they hand out at Knoxville... I might have one buried in a box somewhere
They line up by points
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August 11, 2024 at
02:02:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Parnelli1970 on August 09 2024 at 02:05:33 PM
Why is this so important to you? I'm from Pa just like you. I pull for Pa drivers whether it be Marks ,Schuhart or Macri I don't care who they run with. Affiliation means nothing.
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Because he is a HL driver. I don't care affiliation either, but the outlaws got beat by a HL driver!
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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August 11, 2024 at
02:05:07 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on August 09 2024 at 09:59:55 PM
Hey, Strawsie, I started this thread about the format
Then YOU hijacked it into HL vs. WoO
Perfectly legitimate subject, so start another thread
But "is Larson HL" is one of the dumbest arguments ever... have at it, on ANOTHER PAGE
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Blah, blah, blah to you too! Speaking of dumb look at who is calling the kettle black!
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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August 11, 2024 at
02:06:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on August 10 2024 at 11:25:15 AM
Larson "identifies" as High Limit, and that's enough for you and the people you talk to.
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Yes, NEWS FLASH - he is a HL driver by definition!
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
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