Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

OK, here we go....

Usually it divides into 2 camps: The "how about this brilliant tweak" group & the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it , perfect format" crew

I'm usually in the "brilliant tweak" camp, but when I started going in 2011, I was saying that too much emphasis was given to qualifying. Now I think the invert of 8 is too much. None of the fast qualifiers in each heat made it out of the heats last nite. Maybe 6 invert would be better?

Now the "ain't broke" response is usually "wait til Sat. nite, cream rises to the top"... which is usually true

Justin at Dirt Trackr Daily posted a comparison showing the percentage of Knoxville Nationals front four row starters who transfered out of their heat to that night's prelimin feature. I don't recall how many years back it went, presumably back to when the current 8 car inverts started.

Predictably, the front row starters had the highest percentage. What caught my eye was that 0% of the 4th row starters- the two fastest qualifiers in the race- transfered to the feature.

People like to say that the format means you have to be on the top of your game every time you hit the track. Truth is, plain, ol, luck plays a real big part in the races.

I like to study which drivers come out of the 3rd row and passed someone in their heat race to make the feature.

Second night a different story.  A lot of drivers went straight to the A from the 4th row.   Percentage is pretty high tonight!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Format is fine, Wed night track prep needs work. 

Most years that is a problem.  The track is too narrow on Wednesday for much passing, but a part of the reason is that they wet it down so the track lasts through four nights of racing.

Yea, a lot of it had to do with track conditions last nite

Most of the "Big Guns" made it tonite

0% ????

That doesn't sound right.... If so, tonite was a record breaker!

You're right. I went back and rewatched the video. I was off a row. It was drivers from the 5th row-9th and 10th place starters that had 0% chance. His numbers go back to 2017. The 7th place starters were at 30% and 8th at 38%.

Put into that perspective, it does make more sense. The 8 cars starting in front of the 5th row all timed faster.

Format is still fine and I don't believe it needs any changing. The two things that could improve things are Weds vs. Thurs track consistency and trying to minimize qualifying dropoff. Unfortunately, any change to improve those may have negative impacts elsewhere.

It still works well enough - I can't find anyone locked in to Saturday's A that didn't earn it. Did some drivers get dealt a tougher hand? Sure - but I've said for years in every conversation regarding not only Knoxville format but any format, luck is inherently present in any format, whether it be via a pill draw, dash draw, stacked heat lineup, or whatever. It's part of the game and something that adds excitement to the sport.

Pretty much this. 

The biggest surprise to me is only 3 woo drivers are locked into the A on Saturday night after the first 2 nights.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

8 Low Rollers

4 WoO

2 Knoxville Regs

1 Posse

1 Independent

The Tursday night track was much better for passing and Brown was near the end for qualifing and I think ended up 5th. Friday will have a lot of good drivers and teams still having good chance of making the A. Not his problem but starting the 57 on the front which He earned makes him the favorite but more exciting to see anyone come from deep in the field. A  flat or anything mechanicle can happen to anyone. Fun to see if Sammy can do well Friday.

Keep point system and inverts the same. Do A/B qualifying groups for wed. and thur. nights.

I love the format

For all the talk about no passing Wednesday night, It was Anthony Macri's move from 21st to tenth in the feature that made the diffence of being locked in the top eight and not being in yet.He did not transfer in the heat but a good time set him up with the front row in the B.

There is this weird pride thing about the track prep. Its like they are willing to make Wednesday worse in order to say "look how good we are, we never had to bring the grader out once". I'd sit through grader races later in the week if it meant the Wednesday cushion was up by the fence. 

As far as format goes, I  think feature finishing positions should be worth 4 points instead of two. If I get bored next week at work I'll see if I can do some math to see how it would have turned out. One lap on a track by yourself shouldn't count as much as 25 laps against 23 other competitors.

Right now they look like the high rollers!

Yes, 4 outlaws, I missed Bill Balog.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Perhaps lost in this is that of the 16 locked in A main drivers, Eight came from Wednesday and eight came from Thursday. Of the ten locked in B main drivers, five came from Wednesday and five came from Thursday.

(Shrugs) Seems pretty good.

The only thing I've suggested in the past and I've pretty much moved on from this is 150 points for quick time instead of 200 and leave everything else the same.

Its not then number of points, its the difference in points per position. You could award 100,000 for quick time  and 99,998 for second and it would have turned out the same.