Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Any ideas on the hp and torque differences between a 360 and a 410?  I see 360s competing with 410s at some short tracks

I don't know but a pretty common number for a 410 is 900 hp which equates to 2.2 up per ci..  so using that same mat a unlimited 360 is around 800 but I don't think they're unlimited. My guess would be around 700??  
 Having said that a 410 does not make 900hp until the throttle is wide open and it's reached the rpm it makes that amount. So if they are at a track that can't handle full throttle a stout 360 with a good setup and driver might be competitive, probably not gonna happen at eldora, Knoxville or the Grove tho

There's 100-150 difference in torque and HP between a 360 and 410 depending on the motors.  There's also 40-50 pounds difference between a steel block and aluminum.  That not only hurts off the corner its also harder to get one slowed down entering a corner.  It's a double whammy.  A 360 can definitely compete on the right track.  It's not that hard to hold your own.  It is difficult to actually pass a 410 with a decent driver.

All 360s are steel blocks?

Slight digression: is the difference between a 360 & a 410 bore, stroke, or both?

Great question.  I had a shelby cobra replica for over 20 years and for most of that time I had a 410 Windsor drag motor in the car, it was BOTH bored AND stroked, but I bet a 360 could be EITHER bore OR stroke

No.  ASCS has allowed aluminum blocks for awhile.  But you have to bolt on additional weight if you run one.  Cali 360s are a whole other subject.  I don't think they have spec heads.  They make more power than an ASCS version is supposed to.  

What about Knoxville 360s?   Didn't know if they ran ASCS rules or not, but I think I remember reading one time that they were open 360s?

I believe they're ASCS rules with steel blocks only allowed. 

Both.  410s are usually 3.80" stroke or close.  360s can't be that big.  I think 3.6525" is the biggest you can go with 4.030" bore and be under the 363 limit.  They do run smaller strokes with bigger bores.  It just has to calculate to no more than 363 cubic inches.  And some actually run bigger strokes with bigger bores.  And yes that calculates to bigger than 363.  Lol. 

A very nice 360 is about 750 HP and a 410 about 950 HP.  These are dyno figures under ideal controled conditions.  I do not think you would ever see these numbers on a race track.  Knoxville 360 are all steel ASCS rules.  Some engines are a 4 in bore and 3.5 stroke or 4.125 bore with a shorter stroke.  They are not unlimited 360 as they have injector size rules and head rules.  Some builders do fudge dyno sheets.  I hoe it is just a few.

No. They also make 360 aluminum block race engines. Almost as expensive at 410 aluminum motors. 

I read an article from an engine builder that said his 410's were 880 to 900 hp.

I'm 60 miles from Husets. 10-15 years ago and before you would hear of someone winning a 410 race with a 360 about once a year, I haven't heard of that happening in quite a few years.  Back then I remember hearing how it was $500 to win the 360 feature or $500 to start the A feature of a 410 feature there (I never quite understood that logic since if you're racing for purse money, you're probably in the wrong business).  However throughout those years this happened at Husets, I always wondered what if Danny Lasoski or Terry McCarl raced a 360 weekly?  I'm guessing they still would have won the championships all of those years but it would've been interesting to see those guys run without the best motor.

There are a number of engine builders on line. It would be interesting to know what engines the racers run and their builders. Seems like everything is top secret including even the brand of motors each one has.

A 410 driver raced 410 at Knoxville on Sat. nite.  On fridays he raced a 360 at DesMoines. The 360 at DesMoines paid $300 to win.  This driver leased a 360 from Gaerte for $500 a week.  Make sence?

Depending upon the cost of purchasing the engine it likely makes sense to rent. I doubt few if any racers are relying on the purse money to pay the bills. Engines need maintenance and freshening every so often. This does not come cheap from what I have read online. 410's likely need this every 10 events of so. Could be more often. So $500 seems reasonable from what I have read and understanding simple math.

Doesn't make sense financially, but that applies to ALL sprint car racing

If they wanted to race at Des Moines, it makes perfect sense