Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

After the heat races last night Johnny Gibson says that because of threatening weather they are doing the dash draw down in the pits so that they can move the program along.    Then they pretty quickly put the C main on the track.  Then they pause the program after the B main to do what?   Fireworks?    How much time was wasted with the fireworks?   How much time does the 4-wide salute take?   Maybe not that much but yet another thing I could care less about.    If you skip the fireworks, get the cars on the track ASAP, and skip the 4-wide, could you have gotten the feature in?   Or at least most of it?   

I LOVED the fireworks display with Emerson Lake & Palmer (or was it The Nice) playing....WELL DONE Williams Grove

You do realize that have to let the b main cars get ten minutes to refuel and get ready for the a main.  I don't care for the fireworks either but the little kids do and that time frame doesn't change with or without fireworks.  Agree on lining up the cars but probably a blessing in disguise as it was much better for the rain to come lining up vs at full speed.

Fireworks are funny to bring up because of the long standing rumor that the track owner likes them better than the racing. But regardless of that, it was still 10:30 by the time they pushed off for the A. I know there were 58 cars but that's late for a WoO show. Had they saved 15-20 minutes throughout the night, they probably get the A main in or at least a portion. Just didn't seem like they had urgency last night which probably means they were surprised by the weather. 

Of course I realize that the B main cars have to refuel and change tires.   I'm just saying that they might have gotten the show in.    A long red flag wipes it out, or multiple yellows but it took them 20 minutes to even start staging it.  They could have added the fireworks to tonight's show and made that even better for the kids.

Fireworks before the feature.  I  wasn't surprised it is what Williams Grove does.

It is a real slap in the face to all the race fans who spent there hard earned money to get to the races and then into the race.

Johnny says weather is coming and then fireworks are set off instead of racing, huh?

Any experienced race fan knows what all tracks do, once your rain check is void the urgency stops. As I said it is a slap in the face of all the loyal race fans.  These tracks need to rethink their attitude when it comes to these "traditions ".

Now with streaming fans truly hold the upper hand on a tracks survival.  The tracks need butts in the seats and concessions being bought to be profitable.   Why take a chance on going to the track when once the rain check is void they screw the fans.

All tracks do this, which again is a kick in the fan's ass,  But I personally have been burned twice by the Grove doing fireworks and the slow down once the rain check is void.  I  live in Central Pa  and haven't been to the Grove in many years for this very reason..

My friend and his sons, when we go to races on iffy nights we always say if it rains rain before the consi because the rain check is still good.  It is sad that a person has to be on defense to go enjoy an activity we all love.   The fan's and the tracks both need each other for the sport to survive.  But instead there comes a point in the night where the track says "we got 'em"  the pressure is off.  

Tracks better change their mindset.  The days of streaming and staying home are here.

Fireworks after A main because of weather threat.  Funny they can change a tire easy in 2 min. if you get a flat, but takes 10 min after B main.  They can refuel while tire change,  and can have A main cars pulling onto track while B main do work.  Track does not know what hurry up means.

It's ridiculous to think that the series or track could have done ANYTHING diffently last night that would have allowed the show to be completed before the rain.  The fireworks didn't add a SECOND to the show--the 8 minute horn for the feature sounded 5 minutes after the checkered flag of the Last Chance Showdown (WHILE the fireworks display was happenening).  The LCS cars deserve AT LEAST that 5 minute period: Tire changes, gear changes, shock/bar adjustments, adding tear-offs to helmets, etc. As for the 4 wide, it takes less than two minutes, and it's a sponsored part of the program (plus the lasst time we skipped it--years ago--we got FAR more complaints about NOT doing it than we've ever gotten for having it "delay" a show).

Johnny, I typically agree with everything you say but not sure so much on this one. I'm not going to fully attribute the show not getting ran to fireworks, but it's asinine to think that time couldn't have been picked up somewhere in the show - the first set of hotlaps wasn't pushed until 7 p.m. and the rain came right around 10:30 p.m. I get 58 cars and an awkward pit format, but I feel confident if the show was ran in hurry-up mode all night, they would have gotten the show in.

Here's a timeline from B to rain - there's 29 minutes to work with here. Given the point they were already at by starting somewhat late and not hurrying, I don't know if they'd have been able to save the show. And I know you'll likely point to the 13-minute break as five for the B cars (not arguing that) and the 8-minute horn, but I think given the situation fans would like to see some urgency. I think that's the overlying point in general - it's not if the race is ran or not, but rather if the track/series give an effort to get the show in. I think last night, the fans overwhemingly answered that with a resounding "no". I'd agree for reasons stated above - it seems somewhat ridiculous that there wasn't an earlier start time and while urgency was referenced during the program, it seemed like lip service to what was actually happening. 

Tracks love to play this victim game where they're seemingly never wrong and it's bad for fans to criticize them, but at the end of the day, they're a business entity providing entertainment services to paying customers. Keep up shit like this, and inevitably you're going to lose customers - some may stay home and stream, some may just give up on the sport in general. Knoxville was a shit show running weekly shows all year after having several fantastic years under Kendra of promptly ran shows. It's a terrible trend and makes me worry for the future of the sport.

Timeline:

3:14:05 - James McFadden takes the B checkered flag

3:15:45 - Track is clear of cars

3:16:31 - First firework shoots on the stream

3:24:51 - Fireworks end, 50/50 is read 

3:25:30 - Lineup is read, not one car on the track yet

3:28:39 - First car is pushed onto the track

3:35:00 - Fairly accurate estimate of the first car being pushed off

3:37:32 - First indication of flat LR on Rico (shouldn't matter, no guaranteed time in work area) - cars still idling

3:38:16 - Cars instructed to start to lineup

3:39:15 - Kasey Kahne stops with radio issues

3:42:17 - Four wide initiated

3:43:57 - Four wide breaks, rain starts

I think Morgan Hughes had the fireworks in his will.

I don't think the 8,  call it 10 minutes of fireworks woulda made much difference. They likely woulda squandered that 10 minutes anyway. 

Sponsored 4-wide salute. Hysterical! Sounds like the sponsor would rather have it rained out and pissed off fans than save 90 seconds and maybe get the feature completed.

So did they run the Friday feature on Saturday?

Couldn't find it on the Net anywhere....results?

Missed it cause I was at the BC 39 in Indianapolis. I was torn between the 2  but it was something new & different for me.... great feature, battle between Justin Grant & T Mez 

I didn't think Posse had much of a chance at WG cause of the breakups of 39 & 69K teams. Thanks to Brent Marks for proving me wrong!

found it

never mind....

the problem is williams grove is a repeat offender.  there's never a sense of urgency to get a show in.  my mind was made up when they let the vintage cars on the track last year for way too long...to the point where somebody almost got killed going into turn 3.  

the atmosphere there is great and i was trying to figure out on friday why we only went 2 or 3 times all year.  when it started raining just in time for the feature...i remembered why.

As was already mentioned cars running in the B Main need some time to get ready for the Feature.  I watched on Dirtvision and thought I saw some track prep during the fireworks as well.  My only complaint about fireworks goes back to when I was taking photos.  They'd set off fireworks during the four wide and when they threw the green there was to much smoke in the air to take a flash photo of the field going into the first turn on lap one.  That is as mildly irritating but ten minutes of fireworks would have little time no impact on beating th rain.  It was really coming down and would have stopped the race regardless of a few minutes of fireworks.  Maybe on lap 5 instead of before the drop of the green but that shower was going to stop any outdoor event in it's path.  They lost the track within minutes of the first drop.

Stan Meissner