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Topic: Which is bigger and most profitable Sprint cars or Late Models?
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November 23, 2021 at
05:10:12 PM
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With all the big money paying races next year in late models from the Eldora Million, Race XR races, Castrol tour, World 100, Dream Race and of course WOO and Lucas Oil. I wonder what is bigger sprint cars or late models are. If you wanted to do racing for a living would it be wiser to race sprint cars or late models.
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November 23, 2021 at
07:55:31 PM
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Late models. They have more high paying races with a lot less travel involved.
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November 23, 2021 at
08:11:31 PM
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Sprint cars are bigger at the front gate, they attract more fans than late models and have a far bigger geographic reach. But there are a lot fewer of them (cars themselves I mean) and their fans won't sit for a 12 division show so the back gate can't be used as it is in LM racing to pay a large purse (see the new XR series)
The other factor is the Lm drivers are a lot more independent than sprints. There's no way they would tolerate years of stagnant purses (see Ohio Speedweek) like the sprint car drivers do.
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November 23, 2021 at
10:36:15 PM
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I have often wondered how the cost of each compare. So I'll ask now, what is a competetive sprint worth, car only, compared to and equally competetive late model.
Even though I may not know you, I
care what most of you think!
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November 24, 2021 at
05:26:09 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on November 23 2021 at 10:36:15 PM
I have often wondered how the cost of each compare. So I'll ask now, what is a competetive sprint worth, car only, compared to and equally competetive late model.
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Late models cost more!! Ask a driver. ps. Local LM racing doesn't pay much and some long time LM tracks barely run them anymore. { Hagerstown, Winchester, Potomac gets 15 cars some 3wks,
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November 24, 2021 at
07:53:59 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Ausbritican on November 23 2021 at 05:10:12 PM
With all the big money paying races next year in late models from the Eldora Million, Race XR races, Castrol tour, World 100, Dream Race and of course WOO and Lucas Oil. I wonder what is bigger sprint cars or late models are. If you wanted to do racing for a living would it be wiser to race sprint cars or late models.
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Neither would be profitable with out sponsors.The WOO late models and Lucas Oil Series in late models and WOO and ASCSC are similar.In certain areas Late Models are more popular and in other area sprint cars are. There are several high paying races for late models and sprint cars do too.As for weekly local racing many tracks pay less to win than it costs to race. So not much difference.Its the same from go karts to top series it just costs more. The drivers that just bring their helmet are getting fewer!
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November 24, 2021 at
07:54:13 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Ausbritican on November 23 2021 at 05:10:12 PM
With all the big money paying races next year in late models from the Eldora Million, Race XR races, Castrol tour, World 100, Dream Race and of course WOO and Lucas Oil. I wonder what is bigger sprint cars or late models are. If you wanted to do racing for a living would it be wiser to race sprint cars or late models.
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Neither would be profitable with out sponsors.The WOO late models and Lucas Oil Series in late models and WOO and ASCSC are similar.In certain areas Late Models are more popular and in other area sprint cars are. There are several high paying races for late models and sprint cars do too.As for weekly local racing many tracks pay less to win than it costs to race. So not much difference.Its the same from go karts to top series it just costs more. The drivers that just bring their helmet are getting fewer!
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November 24, 2021 at
11:29:30 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on November 23 2021 at 10:36:15 PM
I have often wondered how the cost of each compare. So I'll ask now, what is a competetive sprint worth, car only, compared to and equally competetive late model.
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Great point, Late Model cost is higher for sure. National winning caliber complete roller around $50k, assembled with body. National winning open motor with sump, figure another $40-45K. Now to win or compete consistantly on a national level... you will pay for access to aero, tie-down rig and shock engineers. Or they are hired. The cars now, with the aero packages run, will almost always use every drop of horepower available. Those cars are pasted to the track now, and going to tracks like Eldora 20hp down, will cost you 2 tenths. Essentially, they have built so much mechanical and aero grip into these cars, the costs have blown out. Sprint cars largely havent changed from a geometry standpoint, and can almost always overpower the tires during the duration of most events. Also why I think personally, sprint car races are better races.
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November 24, 2021 at
11:50:22 AM
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Posted By: heinen81 on November 24 2021 at 11:29:30 AM
Great point, Late Model cost is higher for sure. National winning caliber complete roller around $50k, assembled with body. National winning open motor with sump, figure another $40-45K. Now to win or compete consistantly on a national level... you will pay for access to aero, tie-down rig and shock engineers. Or they are hired. The cars now, with the aero packages run, will almost always use every drop of horepower available. Those cars are pasted to the track now, and going to tracks like Eldora 20hp down, will cost you 2 tenths. Essentially, they have built so much mechanical and aero grip into these cars, the costs have blown out. Sprint cars largely havent changed from a geometry standpoint, and can almost always overpower the tires during the duration of most events. Also why I think personally, sprint car races are better races.
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A high end 410 sprint car motor from best builders will start at $70K and should be freshened minimum of 10 races most dont run them that long. Chasis isnt that high but the componets[rear end,steering,brakes etc cost about same as late model
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November 24, 2021 at
12:12:52 PM
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Posted By: Shortie12 on November 24 2021 at 11:50:22 AM
A high end 410 sprint car motor from best builders will start at $70K and should be freshened minimum of 10 races most dont run them that long. Chasis isnt that high but the componets[rear end,steering,brakes etc cost about same as late model
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Yeah lates are around 500 laps as well. $70K???!!! I have been away a few years but wow. Not doubting you, but as of 5 years ago a national level Kistler 410 with injection was around mid-fifties.
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November 24, 2021 at
02:40:08 PM
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Are we talking from a car owner or driver or track owner/promoter perspective?
Car owner and driver it would depend on how much win on either side and what races you do win.
Promoter - it would depend on where you are located in the country. Some tracks in Ohio you wouldn't be able to attract a crowd bigger than a regular weekly show for a late model race. Other tracks in the same tracks it's the complete opposite.
Overall country wide profitablity would depend more on the tracks management more so than what class is booked. It would be interesting to see how much revenue/tickets or sold for each class.
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November 24, 2021 at
03:19:58 PM
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The OP mentioned racing for a living, not sure how promoters quite fit into this, I guess there can be a segway somehow. I imagine the top quality sprint car and late model teams spend about the same amount money during a year. I'm not sure which one you could make a better living from though.I hear competitive engines now cost 80K.soon to be 100K...LOL.
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November 24, 2021 at
04:35:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Ausbritican on November 23 2021 at 05:10:12 PM
With all the big money paying races next year in late models from the Eldora Million, Race XR races, Castrol tour, World 100, Dream Race and of course WOO and Lucas Oil. I wonder what is bigger sprint cars or late models are. If you wanted to do racing for a living would it be wiser to race sprint cars or late models.
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The world of Dirt Late Models is built for current times, with PPV/Streaming a huge player and only getting bigger. Sprints draw huge crowds and have a bunch of huge races but ultimately there are 3 or 4 geographic areas where sprint car racing occurs and at best its a low level touring series in the rest of the country. Late Models are huge all around the country, even the Sprint car areas have a good bit of late model racing aside from perhaps some of the west coast. If you don't have late models you will have mods which is an easy jump up to late models. This means people from all over the country can tune in and watch their local favorites at these huge paying events. Sprints draw the vast majority of their fans from just those four demographic areas while Late Models draw their fans from the entire country.
Until recently Sprints would be the way to go to make a living on dirt as they are the right mix of affordable cars and high paying races. Late Models cost a bunch more these days and the local pay still mostly sucks but with all of the options for big money around the country its swinging more and more in the direction late models (if you are good enough to run those big money shows)
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November 24, 2021 at
05:42:10 PM
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Posted By: Shortie12 on November 24 2021 at 07:54:13 AM
Neither would be profitable with out sponsors.The WOO late models and Lucas Oil Series in late models and WOO and ASCSC are similar.In certain areas Late Models are more popular and in other area sprint cars are. There are several high paying races for late models and sprint cars do too.As for weekly local racing many tracks pay less to win than it costs to race. So not much difference.Its the same from go karts to top series it just costs more. The drivers that just bring their helmet are getting fewer!
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This is the only correct answer so far from a driver/owner perspective. A local in our area was one of the top late models in the country, but he ran out of pocket for the most part. Even after winning some of the biggest races in the country (besides the crown jewels in Eldora) he folded up shop because he could not make it work. Same with sprint cars. Need a big fancy picture on the side of the hauler with a big name sponsor or some finances backing you. There are only 2 types of race teams: 1. Race teams racing with their own money 2. Race teams racing with sponsor's money.
There is no such thing as making a living running for purses.
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November 24, 2021 at
07:22:55 PM
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I wonder if there are more classes of late models than sprints? At least they don't have to argue about wing/non-wing. Is everything on a big-time late model handcrafted from solid gold like on a big-time sprint car?
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November 24, 2021 at
08:04:57 PM
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One thing I have noticed in my days of wrenching. The local late model did indeed cost much more than a local sprint car team. I wouild say nearly double. Motor cost is about the same. But, the chassis, bolt on's, and body add up much quicker.
Something else I noticed that I have not seen brought up, and someone please correct me if this is no longer the case, but entry fees. Whenever we traveled out of our own area to race other events, the entry fees were huge on the late model side. $200 car entry fee per night was not out of the norm for some of the bigger events, and teams did not even bat an eye at it. I was just shocked at how much more it cost, not only up front, but each night to run.
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November 25, 2021 at
07:31:17 AM
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You make money as a driver so I would want to race Late Models hands down if I could only race one. If I had lots of money I would have both a late model and a sprint car team again if I could only have one it would be a late model team since I could drive 8 hours even here in pa any direction and race for much bigger purses than than the 1990s purses they pay here for sprints!
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November 25, 2021 at
10:12:53 AM
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Posted By: heinen81 on November 24 2021 at 11:29:30 AM
Great point, Late Model cost is higher for sure. National winning caliber complete roller around $50k, assembled with body. National winning open motor with sump, figure another $40-45K. Now to win or compete consistantly on a national level... you will pay for access to aero, tie-down rig and shock engineers. Or they are hired. The cars now, with the aero packages run, will almost always use every drop of horepower available. Those cars are pasted to the track now, and going to tracks like Eldora 20hp down, will cost you 2 tenths. Essentially, they have built so much mechanical and aero grip into these cars, the costs have blown out. Sprint cars largely havent changed from a geometry standpoint, and can almost always overpower the tires during the duration of most events. Also why I think personally, sprint car races are better races.
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I'm sorry to tell you but if you seriously think that a late model hooks up better than a sprint car that's wrong. Nothing in dirt racing is pasted to the track like a sprint car they have twice the tire of a late model and a topwing generates over a thousand pounds of down force at 100 mph.
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November 25, 2021 at
11:55:11 AM
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This message was edited on
November 25, 2021 at
11:59:09 AM by heinen81
Reply to:
Posted By: EasyE on November 25 2021 at 10:12:53 AM
I'm sorry to tell you but if you seriously think that a late model hooks up better than a sprint car that's wrong. Nothing in dirt racing is pasted to the track like a sprint car they have twice the tire of a late model and a topwing generates over a thousand pounds of down force at 100 mph.
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False, skippy. True on the top wing data, however taking in account the surface area alone of the nose filler and decking, coupled with the LR up on the bars and RF pinned, moving air across the deck and spoiler, late model has more aero downforce. 1,110 lbs at 100mph with 550lbs of drag. On top of the aero downforce, there is way more adjustability in the late model to also dial in mechanical grip as well. Sorry to tell you. Takes more horspower to move a late model and horsepower costs more money.
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November 25, 2021 at
11:55:28 AM
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Posted By: W2Motorsports on November 24 2021 at 04:35:25 PM
The world of Dirt Late Models is built for current times, with PPV/Streaming a huge player and only getting bigger. Sprints draw huge crowds and have a bunch of huge races but ultimately there are 3 or 4 geographic areas where sprint car racing occurs and at best its a low level touring series in the rest of the country. Late Models are huge all around the country, even the Sprint car areas have a good bit of late model racing aside from perhaps some of the west coast. If you don't have late models you will have mods which is an easy jump up to late models. This means people from all over the country can tune in and watch their local favorites at these huge paying events. Sprints draw the vast majority of their fans from just those four demographic areas while Late Models draw their fans from the entire country.
Until recently Sprints would be the way to go to make a living on dirt as they are the right mix of affordable cars and high paying races. Late Models cost a bunch more these days and the local pay still mostly sucks but with all of the options for big money around the country its swinging more and more in the direction late models (if you are good enough to run those big money shows)
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There are very few LM fans outside of the south and Midwest. There are far more sprint car fans in the northeast and west coast for example.
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