Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

     Look at the results for the Ironman race. In the heat races, the fast cars started in front and only had to finish where they started to get their times back. The finishing order looked just like the staring order. Would the feature race have been any different if they had simply lined up the cars straight up from the time trials?

No. 

They should go back to some form of invert, IMHO

Why do you feel that way?

It's hard to explain that racing is to see who has the fastest car , not who passes the most cars. Those guys earned those spots. Why give somebody a headstart just because they ran a slower lap?

nobody gets their time back. Winner and 2nd place in the heat goes to the dash. The rest of the A Main is lined up by heat race finishing position. You are misinformed 

Didn't Cale Thomas race his way into the show after not turning a qualifying lap on Saturday. I think Kraig and McFadden were in a pretty tense battle for a dash spot as well. I think Sides had some mechanical issues on one of the days and someone passed him on the last lap to get into the show. Sometimes simply looking at the results of the finish often do not tell the story. I would not be for changing the format given with how the features are nowadays. I would much rather see a good-great feature that has passing through the field, the top positions being contested for, continous engagement for position than have an inverted heat race for the sake of having fast guys pass slow guys. I did not think I would like the Outlaw format at first but with the quality of how the features turnout to be I say keep it as is. 

Only thing as far as heat races go if they do anything with them, I would say just make the lap count shorter. I think after 4-5 laps most heats are pretty much settled. Then tack on more laps to the feature. Or go the other way, line up the heats the same way but have only 2 heat races with more cars in them with more laps, that way lap traffic may come into play.

" Why give somebody a headstart just because they ran a slower lap?

To make the race interesting! If its just about fastest car, they could just do time trials & go home

& all the fans could save $$$ by not showing up....

No the heat races need to be run as others have mentioned. Things happen, that's why you should run every lap. With that said I do wish there was a passing points system or similar where it's not necessarily the just the top 2 from every heat. Maybe give the last spot in the dash to a guys whom passed the most cars. IE started 10th in the heat because of a bad qualifying run because of a bad draw or the track went away etc.  But they got up to 3rd because they busted their ass to get there.  1-2 spots in the dash I could see being used for that. Kinda like wildcard spots. Can't imagine anybody would have any issues with that. They would be the last 1-2 in the dash starting positions regardless (not part of the redraw)  

What do you guys think?  

Thanks. That made me laugh.

The entertainers are never more important than the people paying to see them. You literally got it completely backwards.

Except inverting or giving slower cars a headstart does not necessarily make things anymore interesting than just starting the heats straight up. I think Johnny had even given the data a couple years ago that since the format change the difference in passes in heat races with the current format versus the old one was within like 0.2 or 0.4 of a position. So nothing really has changed heat races but feature wise, I would say they have definitely gotten better. Plus we have guys able to move up through the field, win from outside the dash, and 2-4 car battles for the win and from the looks of things, more fans keep coming. Everyone on here was having the same discussion 6-7years ago about boring heat races and even boring features. Ever since the change the boring features have basically all but gone away. 

The competition is so extremely close, every lap and position on the track matters, heat races included. World of Outlaws format is almost perfect because we are witnessing the best racing in the world each and every weekend.

Passing points are fun for regional and local series because it's fun to watch the occasional fast car pass an entire field of rookies and 67yos in a heat race every once in a while.  

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

The Outlaws have the best, and most fair format for one-night shows.  However, if I were allowed to tinker with it, I would do away with the time trials and run 2 sets of heats with a compilation of points for finish order and cars passed.  Maybe just use a pill draw for positions, and then your positions do some sort of an invert for second set of heats.  ?? 

I'm happy how they are, but if you gave me the keys to drive the car, that's what I would do.  Inverts for one-night shows don't work out fairly for the guys that unload fast.  

Nick-----I agree!!!!!   Besides the Knoxville Nationals, I can't remember yearning for heat races---even back in the day when they were inverted for the Outlaws.  

(and I agree the features have been fantastic as of late)

I would argue that the All Star format is actually the best and most fair.  You only qualify against the cars in your heat race, so the track going away during TTs is not a major issue.  Heats are inverted by 4 but still play out roughly like WoO heats as far as results.  Difference being that the winner and quickest qualifier that transfers go to the dash.  So if you're quick in TTs you're not fully penalized by the invert.  Dashes are basically the same as the WoO except sometimes there's two dashes if car count is high enough.  The 2 quickest non-transfers from all heats get the first two starting spots in the B (which I believe is the only time overall qualifying times come in to play in the format), and everything else in the B and the back half of the A is lined up by finishing position from the heats.  Perfect combination of rewarding quickness in TTs and putting emphasis on racing in heats and dashes.  And the A-Mains are still entertaining.

Signature here.

The eternal debate.....no way to make it perfect unless all cars could start side by side

I like that Allstar format

I prefer USAC wingless cars, but their format gives too much emphasis on qualifying. No difference between 1-4 finishers in heats, other than winner is guaranteed no worse than 7-11 in feature. Anyone who makes it from the B gets their time back, so they can start ahead of guys that qualified in the heats. In events like Eastern Storm where almost everybody makes the A, renders the B almost meaningless

Chili Bowl format is great for a huge car count, pros have to fight thru all those part timers & always do...

I guess variety is the spice of life?

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to go digging for the info on how it works.

You are welcome to have your opinion.  I just disagree. The best format?  I'll give you that this makes it more exciting for the fan.  Most fair?  No chance.  With this format, the guy that starts 3rd in the heat qualfied far better than the guy starting on the pole.  And in most instances, the car starting 1st in the heat is going to beat the guy starting 3rd since the track is generally very narrow during heats.  At least you get rewarded for being the fastest with this format.  JMO---you're welcome to yours.  I guess at the end of the day, they know what they are signing up for, so it's on them. 

I like them all----I just think the Outlaws is the most fair to the drivers.  I feel for a guy that times fast and gets buried on a narrow, heavy track.