Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I'm sure many of you out there have played the World of Outlaws sprint car game that came out in 2002.  I'm sure a lot of you have played the other sprint car games that have come out since then and I'm guessing like me have been disapointed in every one of them?  The new Tony Stewart game is the best one I've played since then but still doesn't hold a candle to the game that came out 20 years ago.  Personally I'm shocked by this, I was really excited when Tony Stewart was going to be involved with this because I know he was a big fan of the game from back then and I can't believe he would put his name on that pathetic excuse for a game.  I guess I don't understand why somebody hasn't been able to make a game as good as the one from 20 years ago?  Personally I've bought every sprint car game that has come out even if I knew they were garbage because if nobody bought the games they wouldn't try to make any more of them.  I thought the original WOO game was only available on PS2 but recently I found out it was also available on PC and is available to download.  Which I've played quite a bit of.  I'm wondering if anyone has made any mods for the game?  I've played through it a few times and would like to change it up a bit.  Even if it just had updated drivers, more tracks would be cool or even changing the schedule would be cool too.  If I had a clue how to do this I would try to do these mods myself but unfortunately I don't.  Does anyone know of anything or is there anyone who's a sprint car fan with knowledge of doing this that would want to take a crack at it?  I'd help where I could.  I know they mod the Tecmo Bowl game that was on the original Nintendo and they mod Grand Theft Auto 5, so I don't think it's impossible.

By the way before anyone brings it up.  Yes I know iracing exists.  It looks awesome and if I was a single guy with no kids and thousands of dollars to burn, I'd be all for it.  But I don't have the desire to build or buy a rig or the time commitment even if I did have the time for it.  I would just like a fun single player sprint car game that I can play for the couple hours I have after everyone else goes to bed once in a while.

I think there just isn't a huge market for it. There was a developer in AU that tried to do a kickstarter for a sprint car game but they fell way short of their funding goal. They had planned to make a comprehensive single player career, etc. The issue is only a very small percentage of people are interested in the single player side of things and with iRacing having done a great job on theirs for mp they have pretty well cornered the market and unfortunately the small group of people who prefer single player are kind of left behind. All games are going that direction though, many of the most popular ones barely have a single player option. 

 "...if I was a single guy with no kids and thousands of dollars to burn, I'd be all for it.  But I don't have the desire to build or buy a rig or the time commitment even if I did have the time for it.  I would just like a fun single player sprint car game that I can play for the couple hours I have after everyone else goes to bed once in a while." - This is also 100% how I feel.

IRACING is ok. Played on others rigs, too many yellows, too much waiting for the race to start, to much continual commitment in time and dollars to be really appealing to me. The telemetry and graphics are very good though. They talk about AI racing for IRACING which sounds better but i really like a career mode single player and have a feeling that's not in the cards for IRACING.  

I had both the LM and WoO Dirt Track racing games and enjoyed them very much.  Great games if you didn't have a ton of time or money to invest but sophisticated enough if you wanted to invest either in them.  I really like the fact that I could sit down and play for 15-30 minutes when I had some down time.  I guy I knew did custom skins for many of the local LM racers which was neat - fun to race the local guys.

@W2motorsports 

I get there isn't a huge market for this.  But I have to think there's a few people like me who want the single player thing.  I guess what I was asking for is if there was anyone or anybody knew of anyone who could mod the world of outlaws sprint car game.  There's a great game that existed 20 years ago that nobody can seem to copy, maybe someone could just update it?

@IADIRT

I tried the rfactor thing (before iracing was around).  First off let me say this, it was a great group of people and they were really good about helping people out.  But here's what I found out after joining a league.  I practiced for 3 months at what was going to be the first race and I ran really good there, I started in the back of my heat and everyone in front of me was running about the same speed so I think I only passed 1 or 2 cars and started about 20th in the feature and crashed.  The next few weeks I practiced every night and the results were similar.  By then I was getting kind of burned out playing the same game every night for hours at a time and just when I thought I was getting somewhere they would change grip levels because one groove had a bigger advantage and I was out to lunch.  One week I decided not to practice every night and I think I crashed out of the B main well running last and having no realistic shot at a transfer.  I'm not saying it was a bad experience, I'm just saying the time commitment it would take to be competitive is not worth it to me. 

I have looked into getting into iracing a few times.  One thing I couldn't figure out in rfactor was I could run one real good lap and then the next one I would be a second slower.  The replays would look the same but what I think was happening was I was spinning my tires through the corners but I had no way to know that, the engine sounded the same or close enough that I didn't pick up it was spinning the rear tires.  In one of the conversations I had with someone about a guy that always won in rfactor they told me to look at fanatec for wheels and pedals because that's what he used.  It would've been about $2,000 for a complete set of a wheel and pedals from them back then.  But what I was really after was some indication to tell me I was spining my tires  Fanatec had a pedal set that would vibrate when you would spin your tires but they were talking about taking that feature out of iracing because from my understanding there were guys who were writing programs that once the pedals vibrated their program would cut out the throttle basically giving them traction control.  The next way I found was using motion to tell you if you were losing traction and wow did the cost skyrocket there, you can easily spend $10,000 on motion simulator stuff and that's stuff that would give you an advantage.  Sim racing will never replace the real thing, I have no desire to write programs to make me go faster.  If I were to spend 1, 2, 5, 10 or 15 or 20 thousand dollars on a rig that would be competitive with everyone, why not buy a real racecar?

@rolldog

That's exactly what I'm talking about, custom skins would be a great addition.  Unfortunately I don't know how to put them into the game.  However if someone knew how to do get them into the game, I am pretty good with photoshop and could paint them.

I still have a PS2 for the sole reason to play the WoO 2002 game. One of my favorite games of all time from a graphics, gameplay, sound, visual, and "realistic" standpoint. All of the other games were nice but really none of them came close compared to that 2002 game. I think I still have the "Dirt Track racing" games that had the TSR cars on the front which were nice to a point but did not really hold up to that 02 game for various reeasons.

IRacing seems pretty cool but outside of my budget and time given all of the other hobbies I have going on. I envy the people who can do it though. I'm with you though, if I was going to do a setup like some people have, I would just save a little more money and buy a real racecar. For me I just want to have a system and game to where I can just turn on, run a race or two and then go on with my day. Part of the reason why I stopped playing video games all together was how much it was costing per game and the amount of time you had to play it in order to either unlock certain thing or be able to play the game in its full intent. It would be nice to have a game like the 02 with the updated "skins" of the current cars and maybe a few more tracks to play.

I have seen some people on youtube come up with custom designs of some of the Nascar games but not sure how exactly they do it.

That was Ratbag games you are thinking of around 2000, 2001.  I am not a gamer but I my racing website at the time and somebody involved in the game insisted on sending me a beta copy.  I tinkered around with it and gave them some positive feedback.  When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's if somebody said games they meant the pinball machines at the bowling alley.  If I play anything these days it's one of my six guitars.  

Stan Meissner

Ratbag!  I was trying to remember who made those games.  Thanks!

As popular as sprint car racing is now, I think it was more mainstream in 2000. You had TNN live broadcasts, alot of corporate sponsorship money (Pennzoil, Quaker State, Vivarin, Mopar), so it makes sense they tried to make a WoO game work. And it was a great game, and if memory serves, I bought it in a Wal-Mart, so it was broadly available. 

A shame they never updated it for PS3 and the current consoles. They made one about 10 years ago with real tracks and drivers for Xbox I think, but it was horrible. 

I wish the WoO and Stewart could band together to update a game with Knoxville, Eldora, Grove Charlotte etc... and have a realistic 24 car field with the WoO/All Star drivers and a few locals. I might never leave my home again if they did. 

It is baffling how RatBag was so much better than pretty much everything that has came out up to this date with the exception of IRacing. Especially with how fast technology keeps advancing these days.  Ratbag was only for a Computer though and maybe that is the difference?  I dont even own a computer anymore with Cell Phones having pretty much everything you need at your fingertips. I do have a PS3 and do play the Tony Stewart game ever so often and it is fun and next to IRacing is probably the best since Ratbag came out. Still remember racing in the different race rooms in Ratbag, Gas City was a Favorite Track.  There was a Brownie1 that was on there a lot and I always thought it was Brian Brown. This guy made comments that sounded like he was ready to get started in Real Racing and at the time I dont believe Brian Brown had not started racing at Knoxville yet but shortly after that he did make his Debut at Knoxville. 

I don't know if it is or was anymore popular then than it is now or not but it definately was a different period of time. Back in 2000 was right at the height of the internet boom when you had several .com companies becoming publicly traded companies only later to lose a bundle of money soon after. As far as video games go, it was a real big time around 2000-2001 with having Playstation coming out with their 2nd version, Xbox was relatively new, then Gamecube, Dreamcast, Computer games, N64, and all available at Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc. All of those systems/companies were looking for content/games to have available for their systems almost the same as you have today with several steaming services like Youtube, Prime, Hulu, Peacock, Netflix, Disney, etc.  Not sure if a lot of these companies were dreaming up some of the figures that they thought they would make on these systems and game but in some cases, their eyes were bigger than their bellies or wallets. A lot of those games (not sure if the 02 game falls in this category) lost a ton of money for those design companies. I remember IHRA having a game as well Arena Football League, the Olympics, Cycling, Mud Bogging, etc.

I still think if you had a network like TNN that it would help grow the fanbase and sponsorships like it did in the late 90's early 2000s. I read a book about the old ASA series by Rex Robbins which was on TNN around that time. It was big for that series and really helped grow it as well as attract sponsorships to the drivers and series. TNN made money and got ratings on ASA races (most likely on the Outlaws also), but when it was purchased by Viacomm/MTV that company wanted to attract a different audience and basically gave racing the boot. After that and outside of Speed Channel which was strictly racing/car content, there has not really been any network that wants to give non-big corp racing an opportunity.

I agree, but video games have evolved to where you dont't need physical copies, making more niche games potentially more likely to be available since it eliminated all that cost and can just be sold digitally (with advertising also being much cheaper using social media). The Tony Stewart games for 2020 are not good at all, and the physics are significantly worse than WoO 2002. Nascar heat has late models and a few dirt tracks, the physics and gameplay arent horrible and could be a good base to jump off of. 

Iracing isn't even comparable to these since it's a simulation and not really a game. I know AI cars were in development at one point not sure if they still are, but either way there won't be any career mode or anything like that. 

The reality is with the relationship the outlaws have with iracing I doubt there will ever be a decent consol game developed, though I think it could be a good move. In terms of advertising, making a good game and putting it at a decent price to buy digitally for Xbox and PS could be a good way to gain new fans who stumble across it and buy it. 

I think there's probably as many fans now as there was then, certainly the crowds at the big events are as big if not bigger, but with the lack of TV, it's more a niche deal.

I do think even with the paid streaming model, Dirtvision and Flo have attracted a lot of new fans and we could be entering (or already in) a golden age for sprint car racing. 

I agree, crowds seem to be getting bigger & bigger especially for the big events. Still a niche deal which I think motorsports in general is a niche thing. It's just a matter of growing the pie if possible.

I think the streaming deal is attracting people in a sense as well. It's definitely making me travel more and want see some different tracks. As far as video games go, outside of Iracing I think the next best thing is to possibly do one of those downloadable games on a tablet. My son loves monster trucks and there are a few games he has downloaded on my tablet through some apps that graphics wise and gameplay are actually pretty good and realistic. Just a matter of a cost associated with developing it and if it's worth it. Probably unlikely though

Just a PS on my previous comment about gaming at my age.  I used to do pretty good with the old Ratbag game that came out around my 50th birthday nearly 20 years ago.  Since then my reflexes and hand eye coordination have gone to hell.  At 60 it wasn't too bad but by 65 I couldn't race without getting into other cars and causing massive wrecks.  If this observation resembles any real life situations it was a coincidence.  Well, maybe I had some real life influences but I won't admit it.  

Stan Meissner

I'm in a similar situation as you, and feel some of the new games don't really meet expectations and have played about every dirt racing game on console. I haven't played the Tony Stewart game for a couple of months now. There's no sense of the cusion or different grooves. 

From the people I've talked to that play iracing it can be done for less than what you think with a decent computer, less than $2k, and a force feedback wheel, which may cost a couple hundred dollars. I've hopped in a nice rig for iracing with the headset and it's bad ass, however the force feedback was turned way down. That was easily the best experience I've had playing a sprint car game. 

This subject comes up from time to time but the game that has the best physics is Dirt 3 or 4. For those of you who don't know, those are rally racing games. I especially like the rally cross, which has different racing surfaces within a road course. 

There is a dirt 5 game out that has sprint cars in it, but it looks like it's more arcade style so I haven't even tried it yet. 

I think the days of a console game with a legit sprint car game are long gone. 

Keep It Real

I have looked into iRacing and I wouldn't need a $30k setup but wouldn't mind paying for a wheel and pedals.  I think I could get a workable setup for under $500.  The issue is that they don't make a Linux version of their software so I would have to either take a leap of faith and try to run it on a compatibility layer which would be a waste of money on the pedal and wheel if it won't work or buy a Windows computer.  I guess another solution would be to get a copy of Windows and reinstall my OS as a dual boot system.  That's a lot of work for someone just short of 70 to go through just to get his ass kicked every time he races. 

Stan Meissner

@ dsc1600  I'm not sure what the effect of taking sprint car racing off of TV has been.  I guess I'm not sure how many people were tuning into TNN back in the day that weren't sprint car fans?  But that's been one of my biggest gripes with not having live sprint car racing on TV anymore.  It seems like they just gave up on them trying to get bigger, maybe that's good or maybe it isn't?  But in the streaming world anyone can watch all of the races today cheaper than a cable subscription.  As for the games since WOO 2002, they've all sucked.  Maybe it's stupid on my part but I buy every sprint car game that comes out, even if I know it's bad.  The reason is, if nobody buys these, at some point nobody's going to try again and maybe someday, someone will make a decent game again.

@ Nick14  You bring up a point I hadn't thought of in that the video game industry has changed.  I have picked up on that many games focus more on online play than single player mode, which has turned me off completely.  But another thing is when you think of how far video games had advanced at that time in 2002.  The Ratbag game was released around 2002, just 10 years before that the most advanced realistic game might have been Super Tecmo Bowl?  It was an entirely different world of video games from 1992 to 2002.  And I think many people were curious about that.  But if you look at today's world, take away the roster updates, is Madden 2021 any better than Madden 2011?  I'm talking about gameplay, obviously the graphics are a little better but gameplay is about the same.  And I think a lot of people have wised up to the fact that many game manufacturers are just re-releasing their games year after year.  It goes back to something I've said for years.  Computer hardware has advanced so much that things have changed in that the software used to push the hardware, meaning programmers used to be able to write an entire game in a month or two, because the hardware couldn't handle that much code or graphics or whatever.  But today and for a while now, it takes so long to make a game that can push the newest hardware that's out now.  The last Grand Theft  Auto game (awesome game for those who haven't played it) came out in 2013 they're talking the next one could come out in 2022.  That's nine years to write an entirely new game.  The same with Gran Turismo, it takes years between new releases.  And a lot of that is for making the graphics better, not necessarily gameplay.  To me the beautiful graphics are kind of like seeing the hottest girl you can think of naked, the first few times it's great but the 100th time it's not nearly as impressive (maybe that's a bad example lol).

@ YungWun24 you're correct, I could go iracing for a lot less than $2,000.  In fact I could do it right now since I already have everything I would need, I have a pretty good PC and I have a wheel and pedals.  But I don't have any desire for the time commitment.  And just like owning a real racecar, once I felt I was performing the best I could with the equipment I had, I would want to upgrade, which is where the cost could get out of control.  Like I said before when you look into Fanatec wheels and pedals, triple monitors or VR and then the motion stuff it adds up.  I know motion seems like a gimmick but watch this video and I can see where it would help https://www.isrtv.com/pc-racing/simxperience-rear-traction-loss-project-for-8020-diy-rigs/

Then you need a place to put this stuff and then it goes back to my original thing.  I don't have any desire to spend that much of my time playing a computer game (call it what you want, simulation or whatever it's still not reality).

I agree as the online play versus single player focus kind of turned me off from video games as well. I get that I am probably in the minority with that but it was just my preference. I remember around 2005 when Halo came out and a few of us were in College and we played with a few friends from H.S that were at a different college online and while it was neat to be able to play with someone from a different area, I just didn't like the experience. I probably played once with people I did not know and that was not a fun experience as you always end up having people that take things way too seriously then others that like to goof around and try to ruin things for everyone and finally some that have some serious anger issues.

You are right about the whole re releasing the same game year after year in most cases. Basically it was just a roster update that you were buying as I would say that for a majority of the Madden games or NCAA football that the gameplay remained the same even from the PS1 through PS2 days. Graphics would get better but not really enough to justify a $50 purchase each year. Even the Nascar games really did not get any better after about 2002 or 2003 and in some cases all of the EA games started getting worst a year or two before the PS3 came out. Once the new consoles started coming out and the cost started to get around $60 per game and you had to deal with the online aspect I decided to just experience real things versus virtual. I enjoy video games but just as a nice little escape. I still play the Outlaw 02 game periodically throughout the year which is plenty for me.