Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Serious Back-Yard Engine Builder = Farms out machine work and rents dyno time.

Using the rules listed below, any reason why you could not build a 900 + H.P. sprint car engine for at least 30% less then the current 410 type engine now in use?

1. Any Engine Displacement or Configuration
2. Any Fuel (Including Nitromethane and or Nitrous Oxide)
3. Any Aspiration

Considering all the engines out there now that exceed this, I am sure it wouldn't be a problem. Question is why. Many people seem to be bitching about the racing we have now, how much better would it be with large HP disparity in the field? Wanna make engines cheaper? make them last longer. How? Compression limits. Easy to test and easy to enforce. In the 360 ranks, drop the ridiculous limit to a cast iron block and allow aluminum. I have chucked 2 blocks due to cracks that would have been easily repairable in aluminum. There are several easy ways to drop some cost without getting ridiculous, but the powers that be need to change the rules or it to work.

"Considering all the engines out there now that exceed this, I am sure it wouldn't be a problem."

Unless someone disagrees, the bottom line of this thread is……

All sprint car engine builders that read this message board agree that…..

It would be at least 30% cheaper to build a 900 + H.P. sprint car engine using an UNLIMITED engine rule.

I hope they listen to you. I'm getting tired of tripping over my 1,000 horse motor now! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....................nitro huh?

LOL

I once had aspirations.......

"As long as I can have a fast boat, a margarita 
machine and can light my hair on fire, I'll be just 
fine."

Jason Giambi

To Quote Joe Scalzo from his new book~ CITY OF SPEED.

"A twenty-first-century Shaver is a 410-cubic-inch, 13:1-compression, fuel-burning, 860-horsepower jack-hammer of a sprint car mill made out of steel, aluminum, rubber, Teflon, magnesium, bronze, cork, and asbestos. And all of its choice raw guts represent the most up-to-the-instant custom speed hardware coming out of the classic L.A. speed houses—Donovan, Moroso, Cosworth, Manley, Brodex, Mondello, Iskenderian, Brownfield, Carillo."
"Assembling one of the monsters takes 60 man-hours, with a Shaver Specialties staff of 10, including Ronnie Shaver, the guru, performing the heavy lifting. When purchasing a Shaver, bring along a cashier's check in the amount of $44,000."

It's been 23 years since the 410 engine rule was initiated as a "Cost Saving Rule", and it worked just fine at first. But, with a limited engine the cost savings only last so long, because you reach the point of diminishing returns on time and effort required to build the necessary horsepower.

With an unlimited engine the Professional & Serious Back-Yard Engine Builders, would have hundred's of different way's to build the necessary limited horsepower.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, by limited horsepower I mean that today's non-winged & winged sprint car is on the verge of having all the horsepower it needs, particularly with the restricted tires they use.

I think if we are allowed to use all the available toys now on the market for unlimited engines, it would reduce the cost of engines somewhere between 30-50%.

If it happens, I'd love to see the factory teams get beat by the "Working Man Teams"

Wow......now you are quoting what other people say.  One thing in there that I haven't seen you spouting off about yet is the LIMITED HORSEPOWER part.  Another thing that would be hard to test.  Your "crusade" here to drum up interest in this futile plan is getting pretty comical. 

I typically try not to attack people on boards, just throw opinions and info out, but I think you have failed to think the fundamental aspects of your world-changing idea through.Would you watch a race between a 4 cylinder street stock, a midget, and a sprint car?  Me either.

The question you need to think about most is a simple one.  If I am paying $40,000 for a motor now, and the engine rules disappear, and that same motor is now $20,000, but I can get a really exotic 1200HP motor that just shreds dirt tracks up for $40,000.....which one am I buying????

your $40k motor is not suddenly going to cost $20k. The point he is trying to make is that if you can get a 1200hp motor for the same $40k, but can only really use 800-900 of the hp due to traction issues, then how much will it cost to get the 800-900hp that you need out of your new design? THAT is where the cost savings enter, and the ingenuity returns to the sport.

Funny how everybody longs for the "old days" at Indy and reveres(sp) Smokey Yunik's ingenuity, but when you try to encourage a different way of doing things how many people are against it.........

Wingsprnt50,

Quote:

"I heard Bullets whistle and believe me there
was something charming in the Sound"

---George Washington

Hi Midwest Race Fan,

You hit the nail right on the head, that, given the state of all sprint car racing at this point in time, the only real question you need to ask is:

"What is the real horsepower number that a sprint car is asking for, and how much can the driver really use?"

Thanks for your careful consideration,

Don

If we have reached the traction versus HP barrier, why can't a 360 reasonably compete with a 410? Why doesn't a 360 have an advantage in non wing racing over a 410? And oh yeah....why does it take 60 hours to build a 410?

My wish list...

- 15" wide by 100" circumference right rear, must be bi-directional doing away with all the taper, open manufacturer...just a hoop rule and tape measure for tech

- 13" wide modified tire on the left rear

- 2009 flat top wing with left sideboard lowered a couple of inches

- open cubic inch displacement like the late models

- weight rule raised and ban titanium once and for all, especially brake rotors!

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

I was just wondering if they could come out with a sealed engine from a mfg, that would

be of the necessary HP to compete with a 410, but would probably be bigger in cubes but

a lot less in dollars. And if you wanted to build your own 410 fine, but that there was a sealed

engine with the correct HP, but probably was a lot bigger in cubic inches to compete effectively

in the series.

Larry "O"

Because there is a big difference between qualifying and the feature, and 1/4 mile versus 1/2 mile. Ask Jeff Swindell who beat the All Stars with a 360 under the hood at West Memphis, AR this year.

Sunday, 19 August 2007

WEST MEMPHIS, AR (8-18-07) – Jeff Swindell captured his third All Star victory on Saturday night at Riverside International Speedway in West Memphis, AR as the O'Reilly All Star Circuit of Champions wrapped up their tour through the area at "The Ditch". Swindell was able to motor his way through tight traffic on the short bullring and avoid trouble that plagued so many other drivers. Several cautions slowed the race as cars bumped and banged their way around the gumbo surface as Swindell jumped out to the early lead. Chad Blonde, who started 6th, quickly worked his way to the front and was running in 2nd place when the red came out for Tim Scites on lap two. On the restart, Wright and Paulus got together sending them both tumbling down the front stretch. When action resumed, it was All Star point leader Danny Smith who went for a ride in turn three bringing out another red on lap four. The damage was light and he was able to get the car repaired by bolting on a new wing and was able to rejoin the field before the cars were pushed off for the restart. With just four laps in the books, it was Swindell leading over Blonde and Jan Howard. On the restart, Blonde chased down Swindell like a man on a mission and took the lead on lap six. Just three laps later, Blonde tangled with the lapped car of Jason Keith getting up over his wheel and launching him into the catch fence. Blonde's car had to be extricated from the fence and for the second night in a row, the fence had to be repaired under an extended red flag. It was a tough break for Blonde who looked like the man to beat after winning Friday night's preliminary event. Swindell would inherit the lead back when action resumed and it was Greg Wilson who was now charging to the front. Wilson then tangled with Tyler Thompson and Thompson spun bringing out the caution once again. They would line for the restart with Swindell leading over Jan Howard, AJ Bruns, Phillip Faulkner, and Ernie Ainsworth. The field finally settled into a rhythm and were able to run off the rest of the event without incident. Jeff Swindell pulled out to a comfortable lead and would navigate traffic like the true veteran of the sport that he is to take the checkers on lap 40 over Dale Howard, AJ Bruns, Paul May, and Greg Wilson. Swindell pocketed $5,000 for the win and did his patented wing dance in victory lane. Danny Smith was able to move back up to 7th place when the final flag dropped, cutting down the points margin Wilson would have gained had he not been able to repair the car under the earlier red flag. The points race is tightening up between these two drivers and should come down to the wire to determine the 2007 All Star champion. For more information visit www.allstarsprint.com *Riverside International Speedway - 8-18-07 - O'Reilly All Star Circuit of Champions Statistical Report *Huggins Cams Qualifying 1. 5B-Chad Blonde, 12.295; 2. 51-Tim Montgomery, 12.308; 3. 20-Josh Howard, 12.732; 4. 12-Jeff Swindell, 12.835; 5. 4X-Jan Howard, 12.928; 6. 9-Gary Wright, 12.941; 7. 5W-Tiffany Wyzard, 13.036; 8. 28-Brian Paulus, 13.069; 9. 35-Phillip Faulkner, 13.080; 10. 47-Dale Howard, 13.161; 11. 4-Danny Smith, 13.196; 12. 78-Henry Gustavus, 13.236; 13. 15-Brad Bowden, 13.247; 14. 31-Tim Scites, 13.258; 15. 44-AJ Bruns, 13.314; 16. 11M-Brandon Martin, 13.349; 17. 11T-Tyler Thompson, 13.440; 18. 28K-Jason Keith, 13.460; 19. 51S-Lee Sowell, 13.561; 20. 74-Shane Wade, 13.543; 21. 11B-Brock Mayes, 13.750; 22. 71M-Paul May, 13.764; 23. 8X-Chris Williams, 13.777; 24. W20-Greg Wilson, 13.833; 25. 40-Ernie Ainsworth, 13.959; 26. 44H-Ronnie Howard, 14.512; 27. 24W-Kenny Coke, 14.549; Outerwears Heat Race 1 1. 12-Jeff Swindell; 2. 15-Brad Bowden; 3. 5B-Chad Blonde; 4. 47-Dale Howard; 5. 11M-Brandon Martin; 6. 5W-Tiffany Wyzard; 7. 71M-Paul May; 8. 51S-Lee Sowell; 9. 40-Ernie Ainsworth; Hoosier Racing Tire Heat Race 2 1. 31-Tim Scites; 2. 4-Danny Smith; 3. 28-Brian Paulus; 4. 11T-Tyler Thompson; 5. 8X-Chris Williams; 6. 44H-Ronnie Howard; 7. 4X-Jan Howard; 8. 74-Shane Wade; 9. 51-Tim Montgomery; Engler Machine & Tool Heat Race 3 1. 44-AJ Bruns; 2. 28K-Jason Keith; 3. 78-Henry Gustavus; 4. 20-Josh Howard; 5. 9-Gary Wright; 6. 35-Phillip Faulkner; 7. W20-Greg Wilson; 8. 11B-Brock Mayes; 9. 24W-Kenny Coke; MSD Ignition A-main -- Starting Position [#] 1. 12-Jeff Swindell[4]; 2. 47-Dale Howard[8]; 3. 44-AJ Bruns[14]; 4. 71M-Paul May[20]; 5. W20-Greg Wilson[22]; 6. 78-Henry Gustavus[10]; 7. 11M-Brandon Martin[15]; 8. 4-Danny Smith[9]; 9. 35-Phillip Faulkner[7]; 10. 40-Ernie Ainsworth[23]; 11. 11B-Brock Mayes[19]; 12. 44H-Ronnie Howard[24]; 13. 51S-Lee Sowell[18]; 14. 28K-Jason Keith[17]; 15. 24W-Kenny Coke[25]; 16. 8X-Chris Williams[21]; 17. 5W-Tiffany Wyzard[2]; 18. 11T-Tyler Thompson[16]; 19. 15-Brad Bowden[12]; 20. 4X-Jan Howard[11]; 21. 5B-Chad Blonde[6]; 22. 20-Josh Howard[5]; 23. 9-Gary Wright[3]; 24. 28-Brian Paulus[1]; 25. 31-Tim Scites[13]; 26. 74-Shane Wade[26];

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

“Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it”
- George Santayana

"Jerry Clark at Port Royal was the lone stand out. He didn't feel the 312 limit was the way to go, and for several years, Port Royal was the only track to allow unlimited engines. While at the time many didn't feel Clark made the right decision, in the end, all the other tracks came back to his way of thinking, and by the end of the 1970's the entire local circuit was back to running unlimited engines in the Sprint Cars".

"Ted Johnson wanted to create a national series that was open to anyone who was keen to race, there were few rules, apart from some common sense safety rules. It was themed as "Run What Ya Brung"."

"Whosoever would be a man, must be a nonconformist"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson