Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Cody Darrah set a new track record at Lincoln with a spec tire? Stevie Smith also supposedly won the only open race of the year in Central PA running a spec tire during Lincoln's 55th Anniversary Show against everyone else who bolted on softer RDs?

Can't wait to see lap times fall some more when they go to a flat top wing with a wickerbill...lol. I thought the whole point was to unhook the cars...lol. Schatz says they are hooked up more than ever...He ought to know, he won twenty races this year....

The powers that be said the reason they didn't go to the 16" wide tire was because it was too hard to get power down......Wasn't that the point?

Whatever the case, I didn't hear anyone talking about motors getting any cheaper this year. I think they got it totally backwards by freeing up the cars on entry with a stiffer sidewall instead of down the straightways with a smaller footprint.

Nice try anyway I guess...lol. Hats off to everyone involved in the track record spec tire....

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

The owners of sanctioning bodies and teams got together and collectively made the new rule changes. If all of the powers-at-be really wanted to make rules to unhook the cars, they would have. The 2009 wing rule is a veiled attempt at best to unhook the cars. The modified top wing will be less effective, however the guys who are really getting the power to the ground right now are doing it with bars and shocks.

There are two possible outcomes:

1. Eventually the owners will price themselves right out of existence; with or without a sanctioning bodies help. It is kind of like the Yankees looking to Major League Baseball to help them stop spending so much on payroll.

2. Eventually the owners will figure it out and really work on reducing costs...but I would not look for it any time soon.

Terry McCarl set a 1 lap record at the Nationals a couple years back. The next spring it was lowered by 1/2 second. Does that mean the cars got THAT MUCH faster over the winter? Not really. A lot of things go into a record lap. The weather being just right for making horsepower, the track being just tacky enough, etc.. When the track is heavy you need to loosen the car up, then tighten it as the track slicks off during the night. Nice try, but I don't think you proved anything about the new tire with this post.

As for Schatz's statement, if you find something with shocks, bars, etc that makes you faster it is only smart to say the new tires are hooking up better than last years just to keep everyone looking in the wrong place for the reason you are fast. Remember when Lasoski showed up in Florida with the extra tin on the back? Made the car look like a coupe or modified? And he later admitted they did that to draw attention away from something they were trying on the front of the car!

This tire hasn’t made any real difference and everyone knows it, lap times are the same. Our top teams complained all year they couldn’t pass, so Lincoln made their Anniversary race open, and Stevie Smith still won it on a spec tire anyway...lol. The flat top wing isn’t going to make a noticeable difference either. 

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

I have wondered aloud all year if the spec tire was simply a reason to complain. It seems nobody in Central PA anyway accepts any change, whether that is true nationwide I do not know. Bottom line is this, when the track has been good, the cars have been fast. Saturday night when Cody set that time, the track probably was perfect. Temps were fairly cool, the Sun hadn't beaten down, there was basically no dust, no time trials to slow the track down, humidity was low, and wind was non-existant. When I pulled into the parking lot I said it would be fast track just based on a quick observation.

With that said, I was also at the track the night of the anniversary show and conditions were completely different. Hot sun, high humidity, time trials....it all equaled a very slow track. I think the best illustration is this. The night of the Anniversary show, Lucas Wolfe took the pole at 13.544 seconds. Cody's record for the 10lap heat race was 2:14.825 seconds, which works out to an AVERAGE lap of 13.4825 seconds. In other words, Cody's average lap would have won the pole the night of the anniversary show by over .06 seconds. If Stevie did in fact win that race running a spec tire, then the argument that the tire has been the problem all year long does not hold much air...he was never really challenged that night. I've heard arguments for both sides, but it appears that weather and track conditions dictate how much the track slicks off compared with the tire itself.

Just my opinions

The new tire rule has not made a "real" difference in the racing, but it has saved the teams a LITTLE bit of money by narrowing their tire choices. If you check a SC12 & RD12 there is a noticeable difference, but it is the track that makes one better over the other. I have been at several "open tire" shows this year and seen RD's dominate, and I have been at other shows and seen SC's be the winning tire choice. It comes down to track prep, shocks, bars, wing angles, gear ratios, etc...

I have said it for years. If they (sanctioning bodies & track promoters) want to save the teams money there are a few simple ways of doing it that won't cost the teams a fortune.

1. Institute a compression rule on the motors. Maybe 15 to 1 or 14 to 1, something that will allow them to last 25 or so races. This doesn't cost the team owners a ton of money, the same motors they use right now would still work, its just that they would have to lessen the compression ratios.

2. Use the flat wing, no wicker bill rule, with only slightly staggered wing panels. Instead of the huge stagger that the left side is compared to the right side, maybe mandate a 4 inch sail panel rule. The left side sail panel can only be a maximum of 4 inches higher than the right side. That would still give them a "little bit" of side down force in the turns, but not so much as to bury the car and burn the tires up as quick. Plus, it would keep the "normal" sprint car appearance.

3. Tire rule. BOTH rear tires must be a rock hard compound (at LEAST the same as the SC25)! It doesn't matter what they choose as long as it is something nice & hard and it really won't matter because everybody will still have to use the same tires. Plus, they should have a one RR tire rule. One RR must be used all night, and only the left rear can be changed for stagger purposes.

4. No adjustable weight jackers or shocks (already going to do this, but I have been saying this for years), the only adjustable items should be the top wing, period!

Just institute these four simple rules and it will save the teams TONS of money over the course of a year and will not cost them a ton of money to make these changes. Longer engine life, slightly lower horsepower, less overall down force, longer tire life, less traction, fewer tire choices, less expensive adjustments, but yet still keep a sprint car looking like a sprint car with only a minimal reduction in speed. These changes would save money and put the "driver" back in the seat especially towards the end of a 40 lap event. Good, fast, side by side racing is all we want! Let's save the team owners some money and make it so others can join this great sport and be able to have a legitimate chance to compete without spending hundreds of thousands or even millions. It will still be a rich man's sport, but not necessarily an ULTRA RICH man's sport.

Good luck getting anyone with some sense to implement these simple rules, its TOO EASY!

Mom! Daddy!! Their going too fast make them slow down.

Why does everybody keep saying you're running a spec tire? A spec tire rule means you can only run (1) particular tire. That's not the case at Lincoln or on the WoO tour or even at Knoxville.

You're allowed (3) options, SC12, SC15 or SC25.

We have race teams from our area that run in both the 360 and the 410 divisions at Knoxville and for the most part they say they run the SC15 the majority of the time because the SC12 is too soft most nights and most likely won't last all night, and the SC25 is a little harder than the SC15 that they feel they won't be competitive with the guys running an SC15.

So if the race teams are given the choice of (3) compounds that vary as much as these (3) do, why are people surprised that the cars haven't slowed down any? With the choice of (3) tires such as these, and with the difference in these compounds, you do not have a spec tire rule...CZ

Darrah set a new 10-lap track record in winning the
second heat with a 10-lap time of two minutes, 14.825 seconds, beating the old mark of two minutes 15.31 seconds set by Lance Dewease on March 3rd of 2001. Other than an extremely old five-lap track record broken last year by Doug Esh, it was the first track record broken at Lincoln Speedway since the 1,375-pound weight rule was implemented in 2002.

This kid is always on the gas. he has less then 40 races under his belt in a full size sprinter, because he suffered a broken arm this year trying to avoid another car wrecking at Lincoln he missed three months of racing. Since back he has set fast time a second fast and now a record. Great things are to come out of this team. He set a fast time last Feb at Volusia outlaw race. I really think with Lee Stauffer and the balls this kid has they will do real well in the years to come, he is a senior in high school.

From Stand on the Gas!

Hinnershitz worked hard getting set for a race. He was a crude yet competent mechanic. Preparing for a Sunday race at Reading, he worked right through Saturday night installing a new crankshaft, then appeared late the following afternoon; Bulebird sat on the trailer with the engine warning up. Hennershitz smashed the one lap record and later routed the main event.

Car owners, smugly rating themselves on such matters, insist no sprint car driver can be accurately rated until he's been in the hospital. Hinnershitz passed this rough test. He broke himself up at Langhorne, then later rolled over and over at Atlanta, smashing his pelvis in the process. Yet when he returned, he was as brilliant as ever.

Possibly his most unstoppable rival ever was a rowdy, larger-than-life figure named Bill ("Bronco Bill" Schindler, another East Coast favorite who had a large and rabid following and was a veteran at 41. He and Hinnershitz disliked one another so, they refused to speak.

Schindler dressed in a black shirt with red and sometimes white trim. Dressed like a cowboy, he occasionally raced like one, blithely sending his car, bucking, across the worst ruts. Troy Ruttman following too close, once had his handsome face shredded by rocks off Schindler's churning wheels. Racing midgets, Schindler won fifty-three main events for two straight seasons. Now he attempted to bring midget tactics to the more powerful sprint cars. Asked about his style Schindler cheerfully explained: "I just drive 'er down into the corner so deep it scares me. Then I close my eyes, count to three, and turn Left!"

Schindler's right leg had been severed just above the knee in a pre-war crash, so he limped about on a wooden one. But he never wore it while racing. Instead he'd wheel out to his sprint car, hand his crutches to a waiting stooge, then strap himself in. So brazen and combative a driver was Schindler that in 1951, his first full season in sprinters, he almost tore Hinnershitz's driving title away.

The Hinnershitz-Schindler duels were stirring. For Schindler, at Allentown in late 1952, they grew too stirring. His car hurtled off the track, slammed into an unyielding oak tree, and the ill-starred one-legged cowboy was beheaded by his own windshield.

Copyright 1974 by JOE SCALZO

Pretty fitting since it's become a rich kids sport now...lol. But it's more like Mommy! Daddy! Please, can I have another $100k so I can play some more?

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Well Cubic, my goal in life right now is to convince YOU, that the way to go is "Unlimited Engine". Can't find my old MK-ULTRA mind control manuals right now, but when I do, watch out!

I noticed NO ONE mentioned the things that could be used that would absolutely be of NO COST to the drivers and have a positive effect on the racing. This was used in a series a few years ago in the SWMA (Southern Winged Modified Association) and was VERY succesful.

10 - 12 LBS Right rear tire pressure. This would help the real drivers use FOOT control and not H.P. control.....It did not cause tires to wear too rapidly or blister. It was great. It was mentioned at One of the meetings at the Chili Bowl.

Wing angle rule (possibly no more than, say 10 degrees).

Definatley something to think about!

Want to see FOOT control? Bolt in 1200 H.P. instead of 900 H.P

I've been wanting them to drop the 410 limit myself so you're barking up the wrong tree...lol. Pretty fitting since the "Outlaws" themselves were the ones who pushed it decades ago to keep everyone else in check. This track record tire rule hasn't made a lick of difference either, other than causing a petition or two that is...lol.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Cool! But, what are your views on "No Rules" for Exotic Fuels, Engine Configuration or Aspiration?

Posted By: new-parts on October 24 2007 at 10:24:45 AM Cool! But, what are your views on "No Rules" for Exotic Fuels, Engine Configuration or Aspiration?

It's not necessary for half mile dirt track racing. Cheaper -12 head motors are just now losing their foothold at smaller tracks like Lincoln Speedway where you are geared real low. And while Williams Grove has been out off hand for a long time, even little motors have still been known to win there from time to time. It wouldn't take much bridge the gap between the haves and havenots a little... Opening up the cubes and putting them on a narrow smaller tire with less wing would do it. 430 CID would probably be more than enough, but I sure would love to see Haud with a big block under the hood again just the same!

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Fine,

But that was a "What If?" question about your view on "No Rules" for Exotic Fuels, Engine Configuration's and Aspiration's.

Not a question about how to make sprint cars go slower with a smaller tire and wing.

It's not a question of slower, only a question of cheaper, hence the moniker cubicdollars. Have never heard anyone complain that sprint cars are too slow, only that they are too expensive.

"Quotable Quotes"

Doug Auld

If the saying "It's always been expensive to race" is true, how come so many of the legends of our sport were from poor families... and many fielded their own cars?

If taking away some wing and some tire to loosen up winged sprints would put the skill of the driver to the forefront. How could any real racer be opposed to that?


Gary Beam

"In 1984, I bought two Gaerte Engines for $25,000," said Beam. "I can't buy (an engine) today for under $38,500. Then we're looking at a $3,500 freshen-up job every 10 shows. Some things have remained in the same range price-wise, but the engines have escalated and the purses haven't risen to offset the cost."


Butch Beasley

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I think that there will only be rich people with sprint cars and car counts will be down. Tracks will have to pay more on the lower end to keep people racing."


Jeff Creasy

"This is the last driver (Heimbach) I'll have," Creasy says. "Wherever he goes I'll go. As a sponsor or team manager or whatever. But we don't know what to do. I've been to this point two other times and now I have to make that decision again…The last two weeks he got his feet wet racin' with Rahmer and guys that he looked up to, which is more fun for a kid. But it's a costly endeaver to attempt to do that."

So, will Creasy and Heimbach continue to dominate the 358s or start over with the big boys?

"I don't know," Creasy says. "I just don't know."


Lance Dewease

"Al is a businessman and if he can save money, he is all for it. What businessman isn't?"

"You could buy an engine for $16,000 to $19,000 in the mid-1980s," Dewease said. "Now the engines average $40,000."

"When I started racing in 1985, car counts averaged in the mid 30s and there always seemed to be fans in the stands," Dewease said. "We do have a 358 division now, and that probably has something to do with it. I think more than anything, it is to expensive and purses haven't gone up that much since then."

Dewease thinks the problem (not being able to pass) is easily solved. "The late models went through this years ago," Dewease said. "They had a big right rear and had all these wedges to put in the car, and it was too easy to go fast. We have the same problem. They went to a narrow tire and unhooked the cars and now, they have to race."

"That's what we need to do. The tires have gotten so good, that we need to go to a smaller tire."


Walter Dyer

" The promotors in our area need to stand up and save local racing."

Doug Esh

" An interesting conversation with Doug Esh taught me this: these cancellations shouldn't be frowned upon by the fans. It's saving the teams money, possibly $2,000 per cancellation. This means teams can run longer into the year." - Jerry Reigle


Mike Erdly

"I won't be here 10 years from now talking to you about this," Erdley said, who is employed as a service technician. "There's no way I can afford to do it."


Emmett Hahn

"This is for the working man to be able to come and race. This is for the guy that works a 40-hour week to be able to come and race and think he has a chance to win the feature," Hahn said. "Those engines with -12 heads are the ones we want to see in our races. They've been sitting in garages for two or three years and not being raced. We want the guys with those engines to come race with us..."


Greg Hodnett

"Honestly, if I had to own my car, there is no way I could put my family through the financial hardships it takes to field a race car"

Then Hodnett dropped the line that should be a motivator for all involved.

"No one has the answer to fix it," he said. "But I do know that not doing anything isn't enough."


Chad Kenemah

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Hopefully down a little on cost so all racers can enjoy what they are doing and not be out of money so fast."


Terry McCarl

FlatOut: Is local 410 racing in as bad a shape as it seems, with tracks dropping them and car counts falling?
McCarl: I think it is in really bad shape. I live around Knoxville so it is hard to see. The local tracks need to quit worrying about running with the Outlaws. Stop it…

FlatOut: What about the 360s? You raced them quite a bit last year. I know you don't think that is the answer.

McCarl: 360s are not the answer. I hate them. I don't care what anyone says, it takes the driver out of it…


Andy McKisson

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I see a flaw in the local system where as the costs of owning and racing a Sprint Car are rising every year, but the purses are staying the same and sponsorship is getting harder to come by. So to sum it up, I see in five years the blue collar teams that race with limited budgets no longer being existent."


Dave Middleswarth

"I'm all for anything that cuts my expenses. Even if it was putting toy motors in the cars."


Bob Miller

"We need to get the promoters together and then meet with the drivers and owners."

"The costs in the sport are too high, and something needs to happen. We need to get all the cards on the table and work on the future."


Brian Montieth

"I quit there for a year or two...I just couldn't afford it."


Kevin Schaeffer

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I hope they can get the cost under control. Western Pa. pays the least and the parts cost the same everywhere."

Todd Shaffer

…"I think technology in the motors and the tires has made it more difficult to move around," said Shaffer. "It seems like a driver needs to make a huge mistake in order for you to pass them."

"I don't know what the answer is to make it better."


Jack Sodeman Jr

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"I see sprint racing getting bigger and just too expensive for a working man to keep up with."


Daryl Stimeling

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Some type of limited racing like 358 Sprints."


Brian Woodhall

"Where do you see Sprint Car racing in 5 years from now?"

"Way too Expensive!!!"

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com