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Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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Topic: Info on Jerry Gilbert #19 T Roadster -KC Area
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KCRaceFan42
October 19, 2008 at 08:28:12 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
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I am looking for any old pictures or info on the Jerry Gilbert #19 T Roadster from Lee's Summit, MO. I would like to replicate this car. My dad, Ken Jackson, worked on this car and ran his on B modified (Purple and White #42) at Olympic Stadium, Lakeside, Riverside, Sedalia, Marshall, Knoxville, etc. I was around it as a kid, but memory has faded. My dad died in 1987.

I have some pictures from High Plains Thunder, the internet and one at home from a victory at Sedalia. I am told Luther Brewer or Curt Grogan might be able to help.

Looks like the car ran a 327 SBC with 4x2 Stromberg 97s. I already have some vintage parts. Any help would be appreciated. A great era in racing. Thanks

 

 



Sprint97
October 20, 2008 at 08:51:51 AM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: KCRaceFan42 on October 19 2008 at 08:28:12 PM

I am looking for any old pictures or info on the Jerry Gilbert #19 T Roadster from Lee's Summit, MO. I would like to replicate this car. My dad, Ken Jackson, worked on this car and ran his on B modified (Purple and White #42) at Olympic Stadium, Lakeside, Riverside, Sedalia, Marshall, Knoxville, etc. I was around it as a kid, but memory has faded. My dad died in 1987.

I have some pictures from High Plains Thunder, the internet and one at home from a victory at Sedalia. I am told Luther Brewer or Curt Grogan might be able to help.

Looks like the car ran a 327 SBC with 4x2 Stromberg 97s. I already have some vintage parts. Any help would be appreciated. A great era in racing. Thanks

 

 



I might have a picture or 2 of the car. I saw it run severa times. My car competed in the same races. It did have a small block Chev, likely a 327 since it was early 60s. It had a car frame, I heard a 29 Chev, with a Ford cross spring rear with a housing quick change. Ran wide 5 wide bolt pattern wheels ( the 36/39 Ford pattern) and was a T bucket. Jud Larson & Gordon Woolley were the drivers I remember in it. I was in Jerry Gilbert's garage in Lee's Summit on Old 50 Hwy before it was replaced with the 4 lane highway. It was located about where the parking lot is in the shopping center near John Knox Village. The pictures I have are likely newspaper clippings.

 

In fact the 3 rd car I built was a 29 Chev frame with Ford cross springs front & rear. It was an attempt to have a car that handled like the #19. If I have any information or pictures, I will let you know through this thread & send copies.

Good Luck, Luther Brewer



KCRaceFan42
October 20, 2008 at 02:53:49 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
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Thanks Luther. I spent many an hour at Gilbert's filling station at old 50 highway. You may recall there was a liquor store (in a former home) next door. I remember the car sitting in the weeds behind the service station in the late 1960s until Jerry was electrocuted in an arc welding accident at the garage in 1969. Gordon Woolley drove for my dad in the early 1960s as did Dick Sutcliffe, Ray Lee Goodwin (obviously you know him well!) and Wes Farrand among others before they went on to greater things.

I have a 1929 chevy frame and it does seem to match the pictures I have ( I am getting a pciture restored with the hood and nose off the car and I will place on here if I can figure out how to do so). I have some vintage aluminum wide five hubs that are in great condition. The toughest part is finding a 1923 steel t roadster body. I want this to be as authentic as possible.

Thanks again for your help and any info. It is very much appreciated.

 



CG5KC
October 22, 2008 at 10:01:29 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 210
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Here's a couple I have of the 19.

Curt Grogan



CG5KC
October 22, 2008 at 10:02:01 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 210
Reply

 



KCRaceFan42
October 22, 2008 at 01:18:52 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
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Curt, thanks for the pictures. The first one with the hood and nose off is especially helpful for some of the details I needed. I really do appreciate your help.



Sprint97
October 22, 2008 at 01:51:40 PM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
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Reply to:
Posted By: KCRaceFan42 on October 22 2008 at 01:18:52 PM

Curt, thanks for the pictures. The first one with the hood and nose off is especially helpful for some of the details I needed. I really do appreciate your help.



Great pictures. Appears to be Wes Farrand under the wheel (at a younger age). It does have 4 Stromberg carbs. They could be 97s or 48s. There are still some of those around & they are easy to work on.

Luther Brewer



CG5KC
October 22, 2008 at 03:12:20 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 210
Reply
This message was edited on October 22, 2008 at 03:12:57 PM by CG5KC
Reply to:
Posted By: Sprint97 on October 22 2008 at 01:51:40 PM

Great pictures. Appears to be Wes Farrand under the wheel (at a younger age). It does have 4 Stromberg carbs. They could be 97s or 48s. There are still some of those around & they are easy to work on.

Luther Brewer



Luther

Both shots are of Gordon Wolley

Curt Grogan



KCRaceFan42
December 23, 2008 at 09:58:06 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
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Thanks to those who have posted pictures of the #19 Jerry Gilbert roadster. I also saw another one of Jud Larson sitting in this car in Bud Hunnicutt's book, Up on the Wheel (great book). I have the photos from High Plains Thunder. Anyone with any other pictures of the #19 Jerry Gilbert roadster or my dad, Ken Jackson's #42 B modified would be appreciated. I would also like to correspond with Gordon Wooley if anyone could help me get in touch with him. Thanks.



Racing From The Past
MyWebsite
December 23, 2008 at 10:16:13 PM
Joined: 12/04/2004
Posts: 2297
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Waco, TX area still. It hasn't been that long ago he was still racing at the Heart Of Texas Speedway there.

I couldn't come up with a Gordon in the area though with a search. But I'm pretty sure he still around there.


Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Honor Flights

Sprint97
December 24, 2008 at 07:33:49 AM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Racing From The Past on December 23 2008 at 10:16:13 PM

Waco, TX area still. It hasn't been that long ago he was still racing at the Heart Of Texas Speedway there.

I couldn't come up with a Gordon in the area though with a search. But I'm pretty sure he still around there.



I have Gordon Woolley's address & phone #. Send me an email at llbrew91@aol.com & I will send it to you.......Luther



KCRaceFan42
January 26, 2009 at 08:27:50 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
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Luther, do you know what type of radiator is shown in the picture posted by Curt Grogan? Also, I learned from two different sources that the car actually ran with a fiberglass body...not steel. As I guessed, Jerry shortened and narrowed the frame. There are still things I am trying to figure out how it was fabricated. As someone told me, think about what he would have done with a drill press, grinder, gas and arc welder and a cutting torch! John Layne told me correctly that once you gather the parts, you need to figure out how they all went together. He has done some great restorations (Greg Weld's roadster, Joe Saldana's roadster and the black #3 Wes Farrand sprint car).



Sprint97
January 27, 2009 at 07:18:16 AM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
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Reply to:
Posted By: KCRaceFan42 on January 26 2009 at 08:27:50 PM

Luther, do you know what type of radiator is shown in the picture posted by Curt Grogan? Also, I learned from two different sources that the car actually ran with a fiberglass body...not steel. As I guessed, Jerry shortened and narrowed the frame. There are still things I am trying to figure out how it was fabricated. As someone told me, think about what he would have done with a drill press, grinder, gas and arc welder and a cutting torch! John Layne told me correctly that once you gather the parts, you need to figure out how they all went together. He has done some great restorations (Greg Weld's roadster, Joe Saldana's roadster and the black #3 Wes Farrand sprint car).



I dont know what radiator the #19 had. I also was not aware it had a fiberglass body. A suggestion on the wheelbase. Take a picture to Kinko & have a 11 X 17 copy made. From the copy, you measure the wheels & convert that to a scale. Then use the scale on measuring every part; roll bars (width & heigth), wheelbase, hood heigth & any measurement you need. Get a large piece of graph paper to draw the car on before you start. That will help you build a close duplicate.

Good Luck, Luther



KCRaceFan42
January 27, 2009 at 10:07:15 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
Reply

Luther, thanks for the Kinko tip. I am just at the phase where I am trying to determine measurements from photos. This will help greatly. Regards, bjj



rustyrail
January 29, 2009 at 02:15:40 PM
Joined: 09/10/2007
Posts: 200
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http://www.usadirtracing.addr.com/Columnists/BobMays/04Short_Track_Thunder.html

No build info, but a picture, about half way down, of Jay Woodside at the wheel. Great pictures here.



KCRaceFan42
April 15, 2009 at 11:28:21 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
Reply

I continue to work on replicating the Jerry Gilbert #19 T roadster. I have a few questions some of you mechanical veterans of this era might be able to answer:

Anyone have any idea what type of steering box would have been used in the t-roadster pictured above? (I doubt it was a Schroeder!).

Also, relative to the question above, I do believe the radiator was a 1959-60 corvette.

I believe the rear axle shafts are from a 1939 Ford one-ton truck. One picture I have shows an alumnium brake hub (Safety Racing, Eau Claire, Michigan...like what is on the rear) mounted on the right front and an axle shaft cover like what is on the rear. Any idea how this was done on the right front?

Any other pictures anyone has would be appreciated. The ones listed by Curt have been very helpful.

Thanks.

KC Race Fan



Sprint97
April 16, 2009 at 08:37:19 AM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: KCRaceFan42 on April 15 2009 at 11:28:21 PM

I continue to work on replicating the Jerry Gilbert #19 T roadster. I have a few questions some of you mechanical veterans of this era might be able to answer:

Anyone have any idea what type of steering box would have been used in the t-roadster pictured above? (I doubt it was a Schroeder!).

Also, relative to the question above, I do believe the radiator was a 1959-60 corvette.

I believe the rear axle shafts are from a 1939 Ford one-ton truck. One picture I have shows an alumnium brake hub (Safety Racing, Eau Claire, Michigan...like what is on the rear) mounted on the right front and an axle shaft cover like what is on the rear. Any idea how this was done on the right front?

Any other pictures anyone has would be appreciated. The ones listed by Curt have been very helpful.

Thanks.

KC Race Fan



KC Race Fan,....I think the method used to place a 3/4 ton truck hub on the right front was to machine the hub smooth on the back of the brake mounting flange. You would want to machine that surface to fit the surface it is to bolt-on to. That is, if there is a protruding ring, machine to fit that surface. Then bolt the hub through the backing plate holes to the car spindle through the backing plate holes. The holes should match. If they do not match, weld it to the car spindle.

The steering may be a Ross. They were popular at that time. I used Ross on 2 cars. They were on self propelled combines & other industrial machinery. Some even had a long shaft out the side.

On rear pickup axle shafts, look around. I think on some models, one axle was shorter than the other. I do know there were different lengths. On the 10 th car I built the owner wanted to install truck housings and axles. We used the shorter ones. I also did that on car #4 (CAE Chasis). .............................Hope this helps,.....Luther



brian26
April 16, 2009 at 10:57:47 AM
Joined: 12/03/2006
Posts: 7918
Reply

I'm betting a Ross steering as well. They were also on forklifts back in those days. Ross was a giant in steering mechanisms, and there were so many models, yet one that works for these cars is hard to find these days.

 

Tested and proven, Ross steering boxes were stronger than Schroeders, and today have more credibility(restorationwise) in my opinion than a Schroeder outside of Indy Roadsters. If you know of anybody that messes with old forklifts, 40 years old thereabouts, hit them up. Parts are hard to get last I heard.

 

Bob Higman told me he used them and only those boxes. The money you saved could go elsewhere and the box was not bulletproof, but then he never broke one either. Higman fielded midgets and sprints for many years with USAC and also was the mechanic along with AJ Watson and Norm Hall that put JC Agajanians old Kuzma roadster into the 500 in '60. Aggie traded it in for a new Watson for Lloyd Ruby to drive, which according to Donald Davidson IMS Historian, became the blue and white Old Calhoun #98, 1963 winner. Some say no, but I'm not arguing with Donald. Besides, Aggie was too cheap to buy a new car every year.

 

Since I talked to Higman, everything he said has turned out to be true or ended up making a lot of sense.

 

 

 

 




KCRaceFan42
April 16, 2009 at 02:56:55 PM
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 24
Reply

Once again you guys are amazing. Thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge. It saves me many hours of research and "thinking".

Luther, you are a treasure trove of information. Can we keep you around another 50 years or so?

Regards,

KC Race Fan



Sprint97
April 16, 2009 at 05:18:54 PM
Joined: 03/19/2007
Posts: 253
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: KCRaceFan42 on April 16 2009 at 02:56:55 PM

Once again you guys are amazing. Thanks for your willingness to share your knowledge. It saves me many hours of research and "thinking".

Luther, you are a treasure trove of information. Can we keep you around another 50 years or so?

Regards,

KC Race Fan



KC Fan,....When you install the 3/4 rear spindle over the right front car spindle, do not alter the car spindle where the bearings run. You don't need to. ...Luther I plan to stay a while but doubt 50 years.



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