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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: 305 race in Donnellson
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88sprint
September 04, 2008 at 09:23:31 PM
Joined: 08/13/2006
Posts: 347
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Does anyone know what the rules will be?



jwag6
MyWebsite
September 05, 2008 at 04:55:09 PM
Joined: 11/10/2006
Posts: 177
Reply
This message was edited on September 05, 2008 at 04:55:46 PM by jwag6

 

1. Engine: 316 cubic inches (max bore of .060 over on 305 block) 2. Blocks: Stock Chevrolet GM 305 block (no box-tie, dart, after market blocks) Canadian block ok.Approved casting numbers: 355909, 361979, 460776, 460777, 460778, 10051182, 10243878,14010201, 14010202, 1410203, 14010208, 14106375, 1416383, 14088551, 14016381, 14093627,14101147 or 14102058. No lightening of block of any type must retain all factory castings.3. Pistons: Flat top pistons. Can’t protrude from cylinder bore. Can run unlimited compression. Valve relief piston is acceptable. 4. Crank: Stock appearing steel or cast Chevy crank with 3.480 or 3.500 stroke. No knife-edging or drilling of the crank, except to balance. 5. Rods: Any steel rod. Oil pan inspection hole required for viewing rods. 6. Drive: Double roller type chain and gear only, no gear drive or belt drive allowed. Short or long steel or aluminum water pump; must be in stock location. 7. Hub: Damper or steel hub. If damper is run, it must meet SFI-approval. 8. Cam/Tappets: Flat-tappet cam, stock-diameter tappets (no rollers, mushroom, radius type tappet) 9. Lifter boxes: May be machined or bushed for repositioning, alignment and straightening of lifter box. Original stock diameter bore must be maintained. 10. Oil Pump: Wet sump internal pump only. (no crankcase vacuum systems) 11. Rockers: Roller rockers allowed (no shaft system) 3/8” or 7/16” stock or screw in stud mount rockers. 12. Valve Train: May run stud girdles, but no rev kits allowed. 13. Valve Sizes: Maximum of 2.02 intake and 1.600 exhaust size nothing larger than specified. Maximum valve spring size 1.55” 14. Materials: No titanium, composites or ceramics internal engine parts. 15. Heads: Any steel Chevy head with maximum of 200cc intake runner UN-TOUCHED. (no machining,milling, grinding, polishing, welding, acid/caustic work, shot-penning, glass-beading, nor any other process that would alter the machined surfaces or natural sand-cast finish. (UNTOUCHED MEANS UNTOUCHED) The only work allowed is re-seating the valve. No underthe- seat relief’s cuts allowed. No work to enlarge the delivered throat size. No port matching of any kind!!! Any steel 23 degree Chevy head allowed with maximum 200 cc intake runner. Head bolts andhead studs can be used! When milling, can only straight cut head and no angle milling of any type. 16. Ignition Systems: Magnetos, Electronic or Kettering-type only. (no crank triggers) No MSD Pro-Mags will be allowed. 17. Fuel Injection or Carburetion: Constant-Flow fuel injection or any four-barrel carburetor. Fuel injection will have a maximum bore of 2 3/16”. If sleeved down, sleeve must be at least three inches long and measure 2 3/16” throughout. No down nozzles. Only one nozzle per cylinder. No funneling or venturing. 18. Weight: The minimum weight is 1475 lbs, with driver, after the race. Weight must be securely fastened in approved area (see diagram) and painted white with car number on each weight. 19. Chassis: Any sprint car chassis is allowed with a minimum of 80” and maximum 95” wheelbase. The roll cage must be of a four-post design. Frame and body must be sprint car appearing (no dirt champ cars) no elliptical tubing used on or as part of the mainframe structure. No chassis/suspension/traction cockpit-adjustable devices are allowed. (This includes shock absorbers)20. Bumper/Nerf Bars: Rear bumpers and nerf bars are required and must be steel. (cannot contain ballast or lead) Diameter must be a minimum of one inch and will allow aluminum front bumper only with minimum .095 thicknesses and must be bolted in place. (no pins, cotter keys or pop rivets) 21. Tires: Bead-lock required on right rear. Can run bleeders. Maximum of 18” right rear tire with compound of your choice. Track reserves the right for a right rear tire rule for 2009 season.0EW AMME0DED RULE AS OF 6/21/2008: 22. Maximum top wing size of 25 square feet with 30” side panels. Maximum center foil width is 60 inches. The deepest point allowed in the top surface of the wing will be 2 ½” measured from top front of wing to the rear edge. No wicker bills or additions to center foil. Center foil must be one piece. Center foil must be square or rectangular in shape with all 4 corners set at 90 degree angles with one (1) degree variance allowed. Side panels must be one piece. No split wings or bi-wings. The top 2/3’s of each top wing side panel shall consist of only 2 corners. Each corner shall be set at a 90 degree angle with no more than 8 degree variance. This portion of the side panel’s leading edge cannot be behind the center foils leading edge. Panels may not measure more than 84” on a diagonal measurement from all outside corners. Panels must be of one piece construction. Panels must be fabricated flat so as to have no turnouts or flaps made of more than 2 inches of material on the front or rear of panel and no more than 1 ¼” on the top or bottom. Panels must be mounted parallel and square to the center foil wit no more than 2 ½” of turnout as measured from the center foil. Top wings must not extend beyond the outside of rear tires. Right side boards must be flat with no bends or extensions. Two stationary foils or rudders will be allowed to run the entire length of the underneath portion of the top wing. Maximum height proportions are one inch (1”) at the front and three inches (3”) at the rear. No side foils, rudders or panels are to extend beyond the roll cage on any side. No body pieces to extend beyond or underneath from torsion tube except hood. Sun shields cannot restrict vision. No wedges or foils underneath race car. O COCKPIT-ADJUSTABLE WIG-SLIDER OR OTHER DEVICES THAT CA MOVE AWIG WHILE O THE TRACK ARE ALLOWED! No pieces may be added to the basic frame so as to resemble, imitate or be specifically designed to deflect, trap or form wind-break of any nature, except those used to cool or protect the motor and braking system. 0o car will be allowed to compete on the track without a top wing 23. Numbers: Numbers must be visible and neat in appearance. Numbers must be both the left and right side of the tail, as well as side panels of the top wing. Numbers must be at least 16” in height on wing and at least 12” high on tail tank. In the event of duplicate numbers or teams, you may be required to temporarily add a letter or number to the location. First come first serve numbers, when signing in. 24. Brakes: In-board and left front brakes must be utilized at a minimum. 25. Driveline System: All driveline systems must be properly installed, reinforced and covered. A driveline hoop or restraint is required. (No open drivelines) Center section must be centered in frame. 26. Fuel Tank: Fuel tank bladder is required. Fuel tanks must be securely fastened. Any means of mounting the tank must meet approval by the officials. Tanks size used for qualifying must remain for all events. Fuel shutoff valve is required at tank. No electric fuel pumps. 27. Fuel: Methanol and Ethanol alcohol fuel only. No racing fuel or gas. No power-enhancing additives allowed. Upper end lube is acceptable. 28. Wheels: No dual wheels are allowed. 29. Mufflers: Mufflers required – maximum 105db. 30. Front Axle: Steel only. Minimum of 2” by .16, 2-1/4” by .120, 2-3/8” by .095 31. Floor Pan: Steel or Aluminum only. 32. Driver seat & fuel/fume deflector: Drivers seat and butt bar are required while the fuel/fume deflector is strongly recommended. Fuel/fume deflector should be wider than driver’s seat and extend from floor pan underneath seat to turn-up behind seat. 33. Radios: No electronic on board communications. Official radio communications overheard by others will never be used as basis of a protest, nor will they be used in support of a protest. 34. Seatbelts: Seatbelt should have the five or six point configuration of attachment to the frame or roll cage. The shoulder belts should be attached about waist-high behind the seat to the frame or roll cage. Arm restraints are required with a window net, on right side of car. Head and neck restraints are recommended for your own safety! 35. Drivers Equipment: Multi-layer nomex one piece suit. Nomex underwear, socks and head sock required. Driving gloves, racing shoes and neck collar required. Helmet required and must be Snell rating of 2000 or 2005. Racing helmet must be worn when firing engine, packing track, hot laps and all races. Each pit crew must have an ABC fire extinguisher. 36. Cars Equipment: Use a securely fastened steering wheel with quick disconnect and removable steering wheel. No aluminum roll cages, front axels, rear bumpers or nerf bars. All roll cages must be higher than driver’s helmet. Opening on left hand side of cockpit must be a minimum of 14”. Only two valves and one spark plug per cylinder allowed. No titanium components allowed. There must be a #12an fitting in oil pan for inspection of connecting rods. A sprint car cannot be raced without a hood. If a rear bumper is lost during a race, but a red flag situation occurs, the rear bumper must be replaced in allotted time before it can be restarted. Metal fasteners are strongly suggested. 0o hollow oraluminum bolts on steering components. Kneepads or other devices to keep the knees from bangingaround on objects and causing injuries are encouraged. Roll bar padding is encouraged in cranial area. A type of Styrofoam or fiberglass insulation of one inch with upholstery type covering is suggested for covering bars in cockpit area. If armafax or foam rubber is used, it should be considerably thicker. No mirrors allowed. 37. Technical Inspection: Cars will be subject to technical inspection at discretion of the track inspector at any given time. Post race inspection will be required of the top five finishers after each heat race andmain events, with inspector having right to select any other finishing position for inspection. Only the driver, two other pit crew members and the technical inspector allowed in tech area. All decisions arefinal. Tech will be hld in the “tech inspection” area! Tear downs (if necessary) will be held at eachindividual trailer. If found to be illegal, the driver will lose all points and money for that night and alldrivers will be moved up, based off of the finishing order and paid for the correct position. The technical inspector has the right to remove a cylinder head after any event.


Jesse Wagler

Wesmar
September 05, 2008 at 10:00:49 PM
Joined: 09/29/2005
Posts: 626
Reply

They need to change some of the engine rules to make it more cost effective.



slow_sprinter
September 06, 2008 at 07:48:10 AM
Joined: 08/08/2006
Posts: 319
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Wesmar on September 05 2008 at 10:00:49 PM

They need to change some of the engine rules to make it more cost effective.



enlighten us! :)



jwag6
MyWebsite
September 06, 2008 at 08:57:35 AM
Joined: 11/10/2006
Posts: 177
Reply

I agree!! I think the Racesaver 305 motor is the way to go.


Jesse Wagler

Wesmar
September 06, 2008 at 11:01:49 AM
Joined: 09/29/2005
Posts: 626
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: slow_sprinter on September 06 2008 at 07:48:10 AM

enlighten us! Smile



A few things I see is: Rods-any steel rod acceptable. Why not go to a Crower or Manley or etc... that makes a "Sportsman" rod with 5.7 or 6.0 cast in the rod to identify the length. These can be bought for $455-$525. If you go to "any" steel rod that means I can get a set of our Crower Maxi-Lite small journal rods off the shelf for the measley sum of $1,850.00. We ran the Sportsman rod around here for years with great success.

Water pump - why run a "stock" water pump? Why can't we use a KSE water pump? A good "stock" water pump is around $200. Then on top of that you have (or atleast I did) a nice ATI aluminum dampner for $400 AND $150 for pulleys and belts. So that's $750 for above items. KSE water pump $260 and a water pump drive hub $60 for a grand total of $310. At the very least give the racers an option of running either set up, all were doing is pumping water through the block to keep the engine cool. There's no performance advantage what-so-ever with either one. Besides a stock location for sprint cars has always been a KSE style water pump for 25 years!! It's a sprint car not a street stock!!

What's wrong with running a roller cam? They'll outlive a flat tappett cam 10:1 plus you greatly reduce the chance of "flattening" a cam lobe or lifter.

This one gets me!! May bush or machine lifter bores to align lifter bores. I did that to mine last year and without going through the processes I can tell you that if someone wanted us to do this work to their block it would cost $600 for labor and 16 bronze lifter bore bushings at $10 a piece ($160) for a total of $760.00 AND on top of that it's a full 8-9 hour project. Going to an .874 diameter lifter 2 hours labor for a total of $200.

What's everybody's deal with "No" rev-kits? All it does is if someone breaks a lifter or push rod is keep those parts contained to that particular cylinder as to keep parts from "floating" around in the lifter valley thus causing more damage!!!

I like the head rule.

In closing I see where you let them choose between head studs and head bolts. The ARP 234-4601 "studs" that we use in our ASCS engines cost you $230.00 while head "bolts" will cost you $40.00. I would rather you give racers that choice on water pumps than friggin' head studs/bolts!!

P.S. Why do we need to run 410 and 360 size wings on these things?



dirtybeer
September 06, 2008 at 11:49:15 AM
Joined: 11/25/2005
Posts: 558
Reply

I agree on the roller cam,solid lifter cams are cheap,but they wear out fast.Let a rocker arm get a little loose and it will wipe them out in a heartbeat.



slow_sprinter
September 06, 2008 at 09:32:04 PM
Joined: 08/08/2006
Posts: 319
Reply
This message was edited on September 06, 2008 at 09:45:58 PM by slow_sprinter
Reply to:
Posted By: Wesmar on September 06 2008 at 11:01:49 AM

A few things I see is: Rods-any steel rod acceptable. Why not go to a Crower or Manley or etc... that makes a "Sportsman" rod with 5.7 or 6.0 cast in the rod to identify the length. These can be bought for $455-$525. If you go to "any" steel rod that means I can get a set of our Crower Maxi-Lite small journal rods off the shelf for the measley sum of $1,850.00. We ran the Sportsman rod around here for years with great success.

Water pump - why run a "stock" water pump? Why can't we use a KSE water pump? A good "stock" water pump is around $200. Then on top of that you have (or atleast I did) a nice ATI aluminum dampner for $400 AND $150 for pulleys and belts. So that's $750 for above items. KSE water pump $260 and a water pump drive hub $60 for a grand total of $310. At the very least give the racers an option of running either set up, all were doing is pumping water through the block to keep the engine cool. There's no performance advantage what-so-ever with either one. Besides a stock location for sprint cars has always been a KSE style water pump for 25 years!! It's a sprint car not a street stock!!

What's wrong with running a roller cam? They'll outlive a flat tappett cam 10:1 plus you greatly reduce the chance of "flattening" a cam lobe or lifter.

This one gets me!! May bush or machine lifter bores to align lifter bores. I did that to mine last year and without going through the processes I can tell you that if someone wanted us to do this work to their block it would cost $600 for labor and 16 bronze lifter bore bushings at $10 a piece ($160) for a total of $760.00 AND on top of that it's a full 8-9 hour project. Going to an .874 diameter lifter 2 hours labor for a total of $200.

What's everybody's deal with "No" rev-kits? All it does is if someone breaks a lifter or push rod is keep those parts contained to that particular cylinder as to keep parts from "floating" around in the lifter valley thus causing more damage!!!

I like the head rule.

In closing I see where you let them choose between head studs and head bolts. The ARP 234-4601 "studs" that we use in our ASCS engines cost you $230.00 while head "bolts" will cost you $40.00. I would rather you give racers that choice on water pumps than friggin' head studs/bolts!!

P.S. Why do we need to run 410 and 360 size wings on these things?



Well that sounds like a deal for the water pump. Do you guys have them for that price? The camshaft is double edged sword. A roller costs more though on initial cost. If its supposed to be an entry level class, roller motors might keep joe q hobby stock racer from jumping in because of what it is perceived to be expensive to get started. I know first hand how hard these motors are on camshafts, even if you carefully take care of them. If the engines go sealed or crate, that opens it up to a whole new ballgame of cheating and I think its the death of things. Guys will spend over the moon to cheat with sealed motors. Look for the GM seal bolts on ebay!! IMO the best way to keep things realistic is to tech things!! plain and simple! Open these motors up and get into the cars. How many motors out there have serial numbers that have been swapped over to 350 blocks, roller motors, etc...etc... the truth is out there........... (sorry, for some reason my browser wont split things up into paragraphs, just another flaw of google/chrome)

jwag6
MyWebsite
September 06, 2008 at 09:53:09 PM
Joined: 11/10/2006
Posts: 177
Reply

Truth is out there......Do you have the $200 to lose if your wrong? (not directed toward you Cale, just a open ended qustion) I think the tech needs to be steped up on this class.

Wesmar makes some good points on the rods and waterpump. I like the Racesaver head rule untouched means untouched.

I wish more people would throw some more money saving rules or ideas out here, so I can have some good points at our Nov. rules meeting.

Is spec. tires also a good idea?


Jesse Wagler

slow_sprinter
September 06, 2008 at 10:13:28 PM
Joined: 08/08/2006
Posts: 319
Reply
Hey I hear ya on the 200 dollar deal, plus all the hard feelings etc..etc.. I realize your going to piss people off, but if you run off one cheater, I believe that you will keep or possibly gain a core group that you want to be there anyway. Has anyone put together any figures for a spec tire deal? Prices? Compounds? I guess it comes down to availability on the tires. I don't want to see a spec tire rule, simply for the reason that Im a whore and I get my tires used via hand me downs from the Knoxville and WoO locals. I realize that it depends on location, and with the right program and prices a spec deal might not be too bad, but I would probably fight it until the used tire game dried up. I like the big wings because (see above..i'm a whore) and used stuff is out there. One thing I would like to look at is that 305 means the chevy 305 and not a cubic inch limit. So I would like to re-examine some of those approved casting numbers (man I sound like a broken record). Keep the bore size down and keep suffocating those engines!!!!! Bottom line, guys who want to spend money will spend money!! Can't stop it, you can only hope to contain it!

ess1
September 07, 2008 at 10:50:34 AM
Joined: 09/27/2005
Posts: 4
Reply

i run a racesaver class and there not that cheap. If you want to win races that is. Ive been told by 4 different people that they have or $10,000 in there motor's.. All light wieght stuff. Mine $3400 ebay special...



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