Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I was just wondering if anyone happens to know why Higday was dq'ed last night? He is a pretty decent runner at Knoxville, and I hope it wasn't anything blatant. Does anyone know what happened?

Blatant? Do you mean that a "little" cheating is OK?

He got caught cheating, although Bill W.'s race report does not say what got him DQ'd....

Chuck.....

It was pretty much covered in the previous post titled, "John Schulz awarded, etc., etc."

My wife told me if I went to one more Sprint Car race 
she would leave me.................I'm sure gonna miss 
that ol' gal. 

Chuck - It is very easy in this day and age to get DQ'd with out intentionally cheating. With there being 20 different tire rules, it makes it even easier. We run 360's and 410's....with local tracks and sanctioned events. These tire rules are actually costing us more money due to the amout of tires we have to mount to stay competative at the different events. It is easy to grab the wrong tire and put it on the car, especially in a thrash. I won't even begine to get into the different diminsions of wings and wing placement.

I'm not saying that people don't cheat, but I am saying that it is easy to get DQ'd without intentionally cheating.

I wondered the same thing until I talked to Josh and his car owner Dwight Snodgrass this morning. Apparently they measured the restrictors that are inside the injector stacks. 2.1875 or 2 3/16" is what they are supposed to measure, BUT you are allowed +.005" on three out of the eight restrictors measured, if more than three restrictors measure over that then you are disqualified. Apparently according to Josh they measured a stack and it measured 2.1878 which is .003" over 2 3/16 BUT under the .005" you are allowed. Keep in mind this was done within minutes after the race when the stacks are still very very warm which as most of us know the aluminum will expand making the measurements bigger!

According to Josh he had the same problems with these stacks last year on a disqulification. After that race in question he took those stacks to Knoxville's tech inspector, John McCoy and he verified them as being legal.

Supposedly they are sending the stacks for Tommie Estes to make the final call.

Hope this helps

First of all I wasn't there, do not know the rules, and don't know what it measured~

Wesmar, not trying to be an ass but you're off a decimal place. 

You said, "2.1875 or 2 3/16" is what they are supposed to measure, BUT you are allowed +.005" on three out of the eight restrictors measured, if more than three restrictors measure over that then you are disqualified. Apparently according to Josh they measured a stack and it measured 2.1878 which is .003" over 2 3/16 BUT under the .005" you are allowed.     

2.1878 is actually only .0003 over, not .003   If you say they are allowed .005 than this is well within tolerance. 

the tech official called tommy estes and told him that it was the gauge he sent them 2 3/16 + .0005 we asked to have the gauge checked and they went to the trailer where they tried to figure out how to read the dial caliper when they finally figured something out they told us that it measured 2 3/16+.0003 which is not the same gauge he told tommy he had got screwed

The stacks are supposed to be 2 3/16 with  + .005 .  The officials with the Sprint Invaders kept saying it was only +.003.  The matter has been protested, the stacks are going to be sent to Tommy Estes at ASCS and the issue will be resolved.  The same set of stacks have been checked and deemed legal in both 2007 and 2008 at Knoxville (who has stiffer tech than SIA).  The issue will be resolved within the next week. 

kill em all aka n------

anybody thought of useing a infared tempature guage on the stack being measured ? Maybe, a consistant temp should be mandated at which stacks are measured if the tolerance is going to be so tight? sounds to me, a stack could be deemed legal in the shop, after the feature, with under hood temps, the stacks expansion and measurement is found not lagit, boy, too close to call on this one for me , personally I believe this could be a area that needs more addressing, If such a small tollerance is mandated ?

Anything under 2 3/16" isn't a small tolerance- it leaves lots of room.

umm, ok do you mean "lots of less tolerable room " or, something like that? lol

He means if it is under the spec, then there is no issue of how much over the spec it is.

no shit

Tolerance: the allowable deviation from a standard, the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specific dimension in machining a piece, OK so, 2 3/16 +.005 (on three stacks) is worthy of how much horsepower?

drop the damn things in an ambient temperature pail of water. take them out and measure the freakin things. end of story. it aint rocket science. i have only heard here that there was 1 questionable stack, and that the rules state there can be up to 3. what am i missing? usually when they pump a motor to verify size they go off of a temp chart to compensate. if you pump big they will give you maybe 30 min for the thing to cool down and pump again. at least in our part of the country. by the time they f'd around out there on this particular deal, how much time had gone by? how many times did they measure and over what amount of time? while i understand 1 or 2 thousands of an inch is a hard way to loose a race, there has to be a cut off point at some time. and it seems that the rules already allow for some deviation. not taking sides, just curious to know some things is all. on a close call, verifying the accuracy of the tool used to measure becomes very important as seems to have been pointed out by someone. being labeled as a cheater is not something one wants. especially after it seems they made honest efforts to be in compliance.

Heck in one of the posts above a crew member said the officials had to go to the trailer to "try and figure out how to read the dial calipers"

How can someone tech cars and engines and not even know how to use the tools to perform the measurements......................

This driver and team could make this very ugly for the tech man, track, and or series if they want to push the issue.

All a good Tech man needs is a good set of calibrated visegrips, left & right handed screwdrivers, magnifying glass and a positive attitude. 2 3/16" can be looked at many ways you know!

1 way is: 2" and the first second to the smallest mark past the first 3rd to the smallest mark.

and another could be: Not quite to the first 3rd smallest mark and yet another could be: About 6 of the very smallest marks but that method can really twist the eyeballs. You can see how this can not be as easy as it sounds :-)

just wondering, would those calibrated vise-grips need to be of the digital variety?

I did read someone said, they (officials)" regrouped" to evaluate the caliper or operator? sounds kinda fishy? Agreed, being labled as a cheat in this case is a little over the top, JMO , the stacks being measured and found oversized by fractions (thousands) of a inch is not going to the advantage to filling your trophy case , theres too many other varibles to make success.

The issue has been pushed and I have one thing to say (per Tommy Estes):

L E G A L!!!! (at an ASCS event)

(I was told to change the wording)