Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

With the radical format that is being implemented next week for the Cappy and knowing there is no way these can be full points races, as the format is extremely radical and not the normal format, I was just curious how many more shows down the road will be like this?  Especially with the points race being as tight as it is this year?  What other races coming up will have a different format that would make it show up points only?

I have always wondered why "non-traditional formats" are "show up points only" shows.     

So what if it was different than last week.....it's still the same for everyone competing.    To me it shows a diversity,  a driver's ability to excel under all conditions and do whatever it takes to be up front.  

 

These happen every year (Kings Royal) and already this year with the Jackson Nationals

I agree...but it seems the World of Outlaw Platinum member teams don't want to work at getting those "upfront" starting positions. They had a hissy fit when they showed up at The Jackson Nationals and the format was different than a typical Outlaw race. As a fan, I kind of like having a few races a year with an innovative format. 

I'll go even further----I think the specials should be DOUBLE points!  

The fast cars will be in the front regardless of the format. If you recall the year Jason Johnson won the nationals he went out like 55th out of 60 some cars and qualified in the top 10 to put him self in position to win. 

It doesnt matter the format, if you want to win you need to be fast. If you want to race for points, you still have to be fast. 

I don't understand this post at all - time trialing quickest is working at getting those upfront starting positions. Somehow the cars that time trial midpack and sit on the front row in an invert are working harder?

As a fan, I like format variation just as much as the rest, but you'd bet your sweet ass if I were an owner or driver I'd want them banished with how difficult it can be to pass with the current Winged 410 Meta, especially on big tracks. 

Let's face it, timing quick is more dollars spent than skill. Make them work with an invert. Its for the fans because without fans racing wouldn't be like it is today. 
 

Also, make it a points race. Same platform for everyone to succeed or fail so good luck! More unique formats for this guy please.

100% agree. I like most Outlaw rules, but the show up points for any race with a special format is dumb.

Exactly, they just don't want an unfair advantage being given to those that are 1/10th slower than you. Clean air and front row starting spots in a heat is worth alot more than 1/10th these days.

Playing the devil's advocate here a bit.....

In a sense, they are competing to be the points champion of the standard format WoO races, and nothing more. 

Nah. You must be the champion of ALL WoO races. No where does it say 2020 WoO Champion of "Standard Races" :)

I think I'd halfway agree - money is definitely important in that horsepower shines in qualfying, especially on a half like Knoxville, but I think skill plays a lot more than you're giving it credit for. Pill draw also plays a large of a part in it as well, too much I'd even say but I don't know how you fix that outside of groups, which I'm still not sold on. 

This has been going on for awhile now with the Kings Royal and even the Knoxville Nationals. I do not think it is a major issue with them just being show points and some might just be over thinking this. In a regular season with 65-80+ races (depending on rain) I think the champion that has been crowned has been fairly accurate. You may be able to make an argument for 1 or 2 of them but 2 out of 42 us a pretty good average.

Still think the Outlaws have one of the best formats. When you take into account races like the Knoxville races with Madsen and Gravel, even the June races, Donny passing Larson on the final lap at Ozarks (??), the I-55 races earlier this year were good, Sweet coming from 7th & 9th at Cedar Lake showing that qualifying doesn't really matter, Schatz coming from last to 2nd proving you can pass with the field, oh and there was that Silver cup race with 3 of the fastest cars putting on a show the whole race. I get that some like the idea of passing and coming up through the field but I think that happens already but for some reason just because you do not see it in heat races some feel it doesn't happen at all. A lot of races have had cars coming from the back and cars actually putting on great battles for position. Multiple races this year have had 3 car battles for the win. I go for the feature not the heats. Heat races at most races are going to have minimal passing aside from the Nationals & Kings Royal but even then some of the cars that start up front are, I'm sorry, pylons. You know they are going to get passed and its just like watching Cheetahs go after Gazelles. Question isn't a matter of if they get their prey, but when.

Your probably right I'm not giving enough credit to the skill. I can't judge having never actually raced a sprint car. Pill draw can be big but it depends on so many factors as well.  I do not care for group qualifying but I'm not against it either. As Danny Lasoski would said in victory lane I'd rather be lucky than good. Turns out he was pretty good anyways :)

The current WoO "standard" format is one  of the best....for a majority of their shows.    But big shows with multi-day and large car counts are obviously a different animal.....Knoxville or King's Royal wouldn't be the same if the standard format was used.   

Let the pro's show us how good they are by mixing up the format a little (and making it count for the OUTLAW championship),  like Jackson tried to do.     If anyone wants to try and play games to give them a better shot....well then let them!   You have just gained another element of drama/entertainment for the fans.    Now we not only get to see who has the best motor program,  who is the best driver, but also who is the best "sandbagger".    

Is it fair to offer full.points when you have a split field like The nationals? 

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

I am not sure why it would NOT be fair,  since everyone has the same opportunity but in my reality it doesn't matter.  In this case I would award points for Saturday night only, with 90 points to anyone who doesn't make the A main (per current rules)  

And I like the idea of double points for big shows....maybe $20k+ to win.    Let's put some emphasis on performing under pressure.  

Yeah there used to be a time when points were awarded based in money earnings. 

A

I do agree with you for the big shows like Knoxville Nationals, Kings Royal, even Jackson Nationals that the format should be different & unique to each event. I think all three have great ones but I wouldn't want any to be the format for every single race. For one, it takes away from those prestigious events if more or ran like them. Two as you mentioned, the car count doesn't really allow you to do it. Three, those races don't need points to make them better. Drivers want to win them no matter if points are involved. They want it because of the race & the cash. All other 70-90 events can determine a champion for one series