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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: filtalr  /  hosehead

Topic: 305 Sprint Cars - Looking for interest at Lake Ozark Speedway
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Sprint 5
September 11, 2017 at 09:06:29 PM
Joined: 07/30/2005
Posts: 60
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Lake Ozark Speedway Sprint Fans and Drivers:

There will be a Meeting Saturday September 16th at 5:00 PM to discuss a possible starter class for young sprint car drivers.

We will be discussing chassis and engine types to get input from the area to see if we can get enough participation to try a new class next season. We will meet at the race track in front of the concessions.

If you know of anyone who has interest in this class please spread the word.

Jerry Jenkins, Chuck Hines and Tim Trimble will be listening to your input to see if this makes sense to pursue next year. 

LOS Staff



turtle4156
September 16, 2017 at 06:27:17 PM
Joined: 09/11/2008
Posts: 80
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anyone have any info on what happened



ryanhunsinger
September 17, 2017 at 03:26:09 AM
Joined: 12/10/2016
Posts: 104
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If you're looking at starting a new division and there aren't many 305s around I would suggest looking into the sealed 602 crate sprint program. Pace performance is now selling the engine package. We started with around 14 cars in 2014 and we now have 30-35 cars every Friday at ohsweken with a b main every week. When the track slicks off there's only a few tenths difference between them and a 360 and the racing is super competitive. The basics of the rules package is Regular wheels and HTC RR same as 360s use,regular size topwing, no gas shocks (everyone basically uses regular pros), no titanium. They run a 4 barrel carb and the sealed engine is drilled on the back of the cam to allow regular power steering pump. Dirtcar/UMP runs these rules in their prosprint division which runs plymouth indiana weekly so far. They're way way cheaper than the 305s and everyone's engines are equal. They tech regularly with the cam dr and check valve springs, etc and if someone wins a ton they take the engine to the dyno. Once you're all geared up if you blow a motor it's only about 4000$ for a brand new engine. Just a suggestion for you. I have raced pretty much  everything and I can tell you that it's the best deal you will ever find to run a sprint car.



Eagle Pit Shack Guy
MyWebsite
September 18, 2017 at 09:06:36 AM
Joined: 02/11/2005
Posts: 1394
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With the ever-growing prevalence of the Racesaver Sprints throughout the country, I would suggest exploring that avenue. Close competition, ensured by the very stricly enforced engine teching and the entire rules package is nearly guaranteed.

If you need contact information, please let me know.


I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Sprinter 79
MyWebsite
September 18, 2017 at 10:24:47 PM
Joined: 12/05/2010
Posts: 839
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Reply to:
Posted By: ryanhunsinger on September 17 2017 at 03:26:09 AM

If you're looking at starting a new division and there aren't many 305s around I would suggest looking into the sealed 602 crate sprint program. Pace performance is now selling the engine package. We started with around 14 cars in 2014 and we now have 30-35 cars every Friday at ohsweken with a b main every week. When the track slicks off there's only a few tenths difference between them and a 360 and the racing is super competitive. The basics of the rules package is Regular wheels and HTC RR same as 360s use,regular size topwing, no gas shocks (everyone basically uses regular pros), no titanium. They run a 4 barrel carb and the sealed engine is drilled on the back of the cam to allow regular power steering pump. Dirtcar/UMP runs these rules in their prosprint division which runs plymouth indiana weekly so far. They're way way cheaper than the 305s and everyone's engines are equal. They tech regularly with the cam dr and check valve springs, etc and if someone wins a ton they take the engine to the dyno. Once you're all geared up if you blow a motor it's only about 4000$ for a brand new engine. Just a suggestion for you. I have raced pretty much  everything and I can tell you that it's the best deal you will ever find to run a sprint car.



Completely agree with you here Ryan.

Having run the 305 program and watching that deal become a money hungery beast I am also looking at the 602 program. They also have a 604 program that runs wingless at Wilmot. I think that it is time to go strickly crate for low dollar racing. Every time someone comes along with a supposedly "affordable" engine program it becomes a behemoth financially.

If they keep teching, which is what is happeneing at Wilmot from what I understand and they stay with the crate engine as it is it will be a much better deal than the 305 ever was.

 

The 305 program has become a joke.


Never hit stationary objects!

alum.427
September 19, 2017 at 06:09:51 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 387
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any crate engine that a motor builder gets his hands on has become a joke. everyone thought the 360 was going to save sprint car racing. try to go out and buy a new motor today from a builder, ridiculous what they get. the 305 has gone down that same path. competitive 305 motors i have seen pricing mostly in the low to mid 20k range, a 360 today is pushing hi 30's to low 40's.  the problem in all of racing today is the rule makers have taken the building out of the hands of the guys that own the cars. run a 358, and have a head rule, you touch it your disqualified. same with injection. flat top piston and pump the cylinder. stupid promotors, rules, lets make more. KISS. engine builders, and anything crate is killing racing. fastrack, racesaver, and now rush want a pc of the pie. don't tell me you can't put it back in the hands of people that can build there stuff cheaper than buying it of the shelf. BULL



turtle4156
September 19, 2017 at 11:46:01 AM
Joined: 09/11/2008
Posts: 80
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Sprinter 79 on September 18 2017 at 10:24:47 PM

Completely agree with you here Ryan.

Having run the 305 program and watching that deal become a money hungery beast I am also looking at the 602 program. They also have a 604 program that runs wingless at Wilmot. I think that it is time to go strickly crate for low dollar racing. Every time someone comes along with a supposedly "affordable" engine program it becomes a behemoth financially.

If they keep teching, which is what is happeneing at Wilmot from what I understand and they stay with the crate engine as it is it will be a much better deal than the 305 ever was.

 

The 305 program has become a joke.



 i take the 305 program you are talking about is the burlington 305's



turtle4156
September 19, 2017 at 11:54:37 AM
Joined: 09/11/2008
Posts: 80
Reply

los put info regarding the meeting on their facebook page



Sprinter 79
MyWebsite
September 19, 2017 at 06:45:59 PM
Joined: 12/05/2010
Posts: 839
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Reply to:
Posted By: alum.427 on September 19 2017 at 06:09:51 AM

any crate engine that a motor builder gets his hands on has become a joke. everyone thought the 360 was going to save sprint car racing. try to go out and buy a new motor today from a builder, ridiculous what they get. the 305 has gone down that same path. competitive 305 motors i have seen pricing mostly in the low to mid 20k range, a 360 today is pushing hi 30's to low 40's.  the problem in all of racing today is the rule makers have taken the building out of the hands of the guys that own the cars. run a 358, and have a head rule, you touch it your disqualified. same with injection. flat top piston and pump the cylinder. stupid promotors, rules, lets make more. KISS. engine builders, and anything crate is killing racing. fastrack, racesaver, and now rush want a pc of the pie. don't tell me you can't put it back in the hands of people that can build there stuff cheaper than buying it of the shelf. BULL



The crate suggestion for low dollar racing is the answer.  If you appear to be too strong it goes to dyno. They need to push engine purchases direct from dealer (speedway motors and such) and straight out of GM factory. A 604 will cost you just under $6500. The 602 is in the $3,500 range. That is right about what I had in my 305, and it became obsolete pretty quickly. 

Eliminate the professional engine builder in the spec classes. 

No injection, carbs only. If you touch it it is illegal.  6,800 rev limiters. if you are over you are out.  Wilmot rules.

Strong rules and people who actually enforce them is the only answer. 

Spec cars should also not be running for $5,000 to win. Spec cars should be a trophy class. When the Sportsman Midgets first started in 1992 everyone got the same $50. at the end of the night. That club grew to 40+ cars. As soon as the rules went lax it became an 18 car club with 14 to 16 showing up regularly. Money kills the sport for the low dollar racer. 

Spec engines and a club that controls them without fear of disqualifications and perminent removal of cheaters will solve the problem. The number of guys that you would lose to cheating would fall well short of the number of new incoming cars should the rules be followed.

I would agree with "let the racer build it", but the fact of the matter is that the racer is the primary problem when it comes to cost control. That is letting the very people who are causing the cost issue to begin with run the program, in the end you have another failing class with the top 6 big spenders winning and a lack of car count.

Racers, (and I include myself in this comment), in general are not all that intelligent. 


Never hit stationary objects!

Sprinter 79
MyWebsite
September 19, 2017 at 06:49:10 PM
Joined: 12/05/2010
Posts: 839
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This message was edited on September 19, 2017 at 06:50:06 PM by Sprinter 79
Reply to:
Posted By: turtle4156 on September 19 2017 at 11:46:01 AM

 i take the 305 program you are talking about is the burlington 305's



Yep, and when we first started I looked at the racesaver, and it was too expensive when compared to the original intent of the burlington rules. Today racesaver is a lot cheaper, but still pretty pricey. I have yet to see a strong racesaver under $5,000. Of course I might be just missing it, but everyone that I have talked to about them are throwing around numbers in the 10 to 12 thousand range.

 

Today both of my cars are parked. Looking at the Wilmot rules, might have to lose the wing.


Never hit stationary objects!

ryanhunsinger
September 19, 2017 at 11:42:36 PM
Joined: 12/10/2016
Posts: 104
Reply

I agree sprinter79. The horse left the barn a long time ago in terms of keeping 360s and 305s affordable. I think that the 602s are the future of entry level sprint car racing because it's 100% foolproof as long as they continue to do proper tech. The 360s and 305 rules were flawed to begin with and racers being racers they figured out those flaws which translated into spending money. I truly believe that this is the best thing that has happened to sprint car racing in a long time because it makes it super affordable and reasonable for a normal person who works a normal job to race sprint cars weekly and still be responsible in their life outside of racing. I wouldn't support something if the racing sucked but the racing is amazing and super competetive in the 602 winged division at ohsweken. We had lots of rain this summer so we maybe got 13-14 races in and there were 8 or 9 different winners. The key is wheelspin and at Ohsweken we still get tons of wheelspin. We have some guys that spend lots of money on new cars but I've won 5 featues in the last 2 years in a 2002 j&j. 



ryanhunsinger
September 19, 2017 at 11:52:52 PM
Joined: 12/10/2016
Posts: 104
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Sprinter 79 on September 19 2017 at 06:45:59 PM

The crate suggestion for low dollar racing is the answer.  If you appear to be too strong it goes to dyno. They need to push engine purchases direct from dealer (speedway motors and such) and straight out of GM factory. A 604 will cost you just under $6500. The 602 is in the $3,500 range. That is right about what I had in my 305, and it became obsolete pretty quickly. 

Eliminate the professional engine builder in the spec classes. 

No injection, carbs only. If you touch it it is illegal.  6,800 rev limiters. if you are over you are out.  Wilmot rules.

Strong rules and people who actually enforce them is the only answer. 

Spec cars should also not be running for $5,000 to win. Spec cars should be a trophy class. When the Sportsman Midgets first started in 1992 everyone got the same $50. at the end of the night. That club grew to 40+ cars. As soon as the rules went lax it became an 18 car club with 14 to 16 showing up regularly. Money kills the sport for the low dollar racer. 

Spec engines and a club that controls them without fear of disqualifications and perminent removal of cheaters will solve the problem. The number of guys that you would lose to cheating would fall well short of the number of new incoming cars should the rules be followed.

I would agree with "let the racer build it", but the fact of the matter is that the racer is the primary problem when it comes to cost control. That is letting the very people who are causing the cost issue to begin with run the program, in the end you have another failing class with the top 6 big spenders winning and a lack of car count.

Racers, (and I include myself in this comment), in general are not all that intelligent. 



I don't think a spec class should be running for trophies, especially when there are 2-3000 paying fans in the stands every week but I'm pretty happy with what we run for which is basically a 305 purse. 360 is our weekly headline division and they get $1500 to win and 275$ I believe to start. we get 500$ to win and everyone who shows up gets minimum 100$ Plus we have a few 1000$/$1500 to win races throughout the season. I've  talked to 305 guys who bitch about their purse but its not the racetracks fault that they figured out how to spend 25k on a motor that was meant to cost around 5000$. Of course it would be nice to get paid more but there are tons of road racing guys who spend way way more than we do (plus they also pay 500-1500$ entry fees for the weekend) so we are pretty lucky that we get the money that we get.



98arpy
September 20, 2017 at 07:39:47 AM
Joined: 02/20/2006
Posts: 18
Reply

Working off the Ohsweken original program, DIRTcar developed a sealed engine, affordable, Pro Sprint winged sprint car program.

Rush Racing Series has just announced a wingless version.

Both utilize a totaly sealed Chevrolet Performance 602 engine that comes from Pace Performance. Pace has a process to drill and tap the back of the camshaft for fuel pump and powersteering. They have also developed a balancer hub and yoke for sprint car applications. They also built the mandated carb spacer plate with throttle linkage.

Hoosier has also developed Right and Left rear tires for these cars that are less expensive than the upper level tires. $175 for RR and $165 for LR.

Email me at larrykemp1959@yahoo.com and I will send a copy of the rules.

 



turtle4156
September 20, 2017 at 12:01:29 PM
Joined: 09/11/2008
Posts: 80
Reply

whether it is a racesaver or crate motor, if the rules are not enforced all the time doesn't matter what u run.

 



Eagle Pit Shack Guy
MyWebsite
September 20, 2017 at 01:28:43 PM
Joined: 02/11/2005
Posts: 1394
Reply

That's why teams like the Racesaver program!! The strictest teching system in the sport, and it IS enforced.

At a recent race, the tech inspector DQ'ed 13 out of 23 of the cars there!!!

At the Racesaver IMCA Sprint Nationals, not 1 car hits the track and not 1 engine is allowed to be used without first passing tech. Then, they get teched again after the A Feature if they finish high enough.


I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Aces&Eights
November 17, 2017 at 12:15:48 PM
Joined: 04/02/2016
Posts: 22
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Eagle Pit Shack Guy on September 20 2017 at 01:28:43 PM

That's why teams like the Racesaver program!! The strictest teching system in the sport, and it IS enforced.

At a recent race, the tech inspector DQ'ed 13 out of 23 of the cars there!!!

At the Racesaver IMCA Sprint Nationals, not 1 car hits the track and not 1 engine is allowed to be used without first passing tech. Then, they get teched again after the A Feature if they finish high enough.



I'm leaning more and more towards the Racesaver 305 over the GM602.  Too many want to rely on seals as the answer, but it makes promoters and tech men lazy, not to mention its been proven you can beat seals and bolts anyway.  At least with Racesaver deal they actually tech and unlike GM602 if something goes wrong 2 races in, your not out $4K, you can actually take it apart and probably fix it.  Lastly, just because somebody spent too much on an engine doesn't neccessarily mean they got more.  I like the Elite series in Texs, they appear to be growing with good exciting racing as well.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—	
I took the one less traveled by,	
And that has made all the difference.

jah42
November 17, 2017 at 01:45:04 PM
Joined: 11/26/2004
Posts: 1548
Reply

Going to race on Friday nights is an earlier release. Cameron Mo, US 36 Raceway is also planning on starting a 305 class, race saver, and also run on Friday Nights.

WTF



alum.427
November 20, 2017 at 05:10:52 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 387
Reply

Trophy class ? Heck ya, here is your participation trophy for putting your life on a line. :(  You need to go race go-karts. I don't know if I should ask if your happy or just in a mind set that I just don't get.  Trophies, geeeezzzz



brettco
November 20, 2017 at 10:09:49 PM
Joined: 12/03/2004
Posts: 490
Reply

Everyone wants rules that suits their own time-money-inventory-theores. We just proved that. I agree without enforcement it can't work and most tracks won't ban a regular at their track because of low car counts.



kart31rac
MyWebsite
November 21, 2017 at 11:42:12 AM
Joined: 08/04/2010
Posts: 51
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The 305 racing has got out of hand, at Burlington totally out of hand. I know first hand LoL. I sold my 305 for the same price that I bought a 12head 410 for. And my 305 was built in the garage. I feel the best seris out there is WAR I know its non wing,  We have race with them for two years with a 305 and a wetsump 360 and had many top ten finishes. Engine rules are open. We can run 8th with war and make more than running top 3 at 34. 305 was a great idea just like 360's but its just got out of hand. Race Saver I feel is the best way cause you can go race anywhere in the country. Racing is not cheap any class you race in, I have heard of 4 and 5 k 4cyl class lol. JMO

 



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