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March 13, 2018 at
10:35:54 AM
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The Schatz's spent considerable money and time a few years ago putting that LS7 crate engine into a sprint car and then running up to Grand Forks on off nites (Friday nites at River Cities) but even though they did win one race with it, and usually ran in the front, most of the time it didn't finish the race. A street engine as stated here often does't have the needs a high-reving sprint car engine needs. They were going in the right direction though: trying to get a relatively inexpensive "spec" GM crate engine up to 750+ HP and run for 30, 40 laps. The money 410 racing would save with a spec engine would be astronomical.
When engines get to 80 dollars and thats just around the corner a couple years, we might finally see some action by first, WoO officials, afterall, there are a lot of series of stock cars and sprint cars that run "spec" engines now, and more and more appear each year. Put some engine builder to work spending as little money as possible to get a $20,000 spec engine available. What's a crate LS7 cost, about $14,000. Another 8 or $9,000 should make it feasable. Who would know the difference between 800 HP and 950HP. The stop watch.
Lawlessness and liberalism equals Hell. NY City,
Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Minnepolis, etc. We saw it.
Burning hundreds of buildings, a thousand assaults and
dozens of murders. Getting worser and worser.
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March 13, 2018 at
01:17:15 PM
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from motorhead748: 5 statements in his post.
1. using the word ford is no more than identifying an engine that is different from the norm? Answer: The NORM? Schatz in July or whenever will be a Ford and the others will be using using what, "the Norm". The Norm is now an engine. You mean a Chevy!! Oh, he's got the "norm" in his sprinter". How stupid!! why can crew chiefs, crew members, sprint car writers, Kistler, etc, use the word Chevy when talking about 410 engines in sprint car racing today. As Bob Mays wrote in Flat Out last month, "same basic engine design as sat between the frame rails in 1956. As Bob Trostle says in his book, in the 70s, he just went to a Chevy dealer and bought a Chevy small block. Then he says as stronger internal parts were produced (aluminum, titanium, etc), these strong parts were used but the design was the same.
2. As far as the ford having no connection to any ford engine, how do you know? Answer: Its a brand new engine built specifically for sprint car racing. Its not designed after anything Ford ever had in a car or truck, it has nothing to do with any Ford engine ever produced. Ask any crew chief involved in sprint car racing. But yes, you are correct, it has pistons and valves. Its like saying the Chevy engine that won so many Indy car races in the 80s and early 90s as well as multiple Indy car championships and six consecutive Indy 500s is related to chevy engines of the day. Hell, it was built for Chevy with Chevy money by llmor Engineering, had nothing in common with any Chevy engine of the day. Exactly like Schatz's future Shaver engine. The Widget.
3. I have no knowledge of what they (Shaver Ford) are using for a block & cylinder heads but I'd wager it has some lineage to some ford as much as the current crop of chevys have to a 265....? Answer: Yes it has the same amount of lineage to some Honda engine or Buick engine or Dodge engine or Chevy engine or any engine.
4. why would Schatz and Stewart have mixed feelings? Answer: Today's Shaver Chevy engines are producing 960 HP, that's why they might have mixed feelings, and the HP numbers are not going to sit at 960 but will continue to have increases in power year fter year..
5. I'm sure ford is footing the bill 100% and then some for the engine and I'd also wager that it's in the contract that they will not run it until it's at least as good as what they have now? Answer: We're waiting
Talking Chevy engines: Just read that the NHRA removed the requirement in Pro Stock racing that now if you have a Camaro you can have a Ford big block engine in it. Fat chance. If you have a Mustang steel body, you can have a Chevy big block engine, Same with Dodge steel body cars in pro stock, pick your engine. For decades, you had to run a Chevy motor with a Chevy car, Ford motor with a Ford body car, Dodge motor with a Dodge body car. Well, after years and years of total pro sstock domination by the 500 c.i. big block Chevy motors in Camaros and other Chevy sheet metal, and recently having entire sixeen car fields made up of sixteen Camaros, they had to change that rule. But, to give credit where credit due, Allen Johnson won the Pro Stock title one year with his Dodge 500 inch power. So now we will be having Mustangs with 500 inch Chevy motors as well as Dodges. Why, easier to make them go weally weally fast! The bowtie domination is much like the MOPAR domination, complete, total, absolute domination by the hemi in top fuel and funny car since the beginning of time..
Lawlessness + liberalism = HELL - NYC, Detroit, Chicago,
Seattle, LA Who the H runs those cities.
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March 13, 2018 at
01:24:10 PM
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Sorry, but can't let this go without a little shot. "Can't wait for sprint car engines to get to $80"?.
Lawlessness and liberalism equals Hell. NY City,
Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Minnepolis, etc. We saw it.
Burning hundreds of buildings, a thousand assaults and
dozens of murders. Getting worser and worser.
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March 13, 2018 at
01:52:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dirtraceorbust on March 13 2018 at 01:17:15 PM
from motorhead748: 5 statements in his post.
1. using the word ford is no more than identifying an engine that is different from the norm? Answer: The NORM? Schatz in July or whenever will be a Ford and the others will be using using what, "the Norm". The Norm is now an engine. You mean a Chevy!! Oh, he's got the "norm" in his sprinter". How stupid!! why can crew chiefs, crew members, sprint car writers, Kistler, etc, use the word Chevy when talking about 410 engines in sprint car racing today. As Bob Mays wrote in Flat Out last month, "same basic engine design as sat between the frame rails in 1956. As Bob Trostle says in his book, in the 70s, he just went to a Chevy dealer and bought a Chevy small block. Then he says as stronger internal parts were produced (aluminum, titanium, etc), these strong parts were used but the design was the same.
2. As far as the ford having no connection to any ford engine, how do you know? Answer: Its a brand new engine built specifically for sprint car racing. Its not designed after anything Ford ever had in a car or truck, it has nothing to do with any Ford engine ever produced. Ask any crew chief involved in sprint car racing. But yes, you are correct, it has pistons and valves. Its like saying the Chevy engine that won so many Indy car races in the 80s and early 90s as well as multiple Indy car championships and six consecutive Indy 500s is related to chevy engines of the day. Hell, it was built for Chevy with Chevy money by llmor Engineering, had nothing in common with any Chevy engine of the day. Exactly like Schatz's future Shaver engine. The Widget.
3. I have no knowledge of what they (Shaver Ford) are using for a block & cylinder heads but I'd wager it has some lineage to some ford as much as the current crop of chevys have to a 265....? Answer: Yes it has the same amount of lineage to some Honda engine or Buick engine or Dodge engine or Chevy engine or any engine.
4. why would Schatz and Stewart have mixed feelings? Answer: Today's Shaver Chevy engines are producing 960 HP, that's why they might have mixed feelings, and the HP numbers are not going to sit at 960 but will continue to have increases in power year fter year..
5. I'm sure ford is footing the bill 100% and then some for the engine and I'd also wager that it's in the contract that they will not run it until it's at least as good as what they have now? Answer: We're waiting
Talking Chevy engines: Just read that the NHRA removed the requirement in Pro Stock racing that now if you have a Camaro you can have a Ford big block engine in it. Fat chance. If you have a Mustang steel body, you can have a Chevy big block engine, Same with Dodge steel body cars in pro stock, pick your engine. For decades, you had to run a Chevy motor with a Chevy car, Ford motor with a Ford body car, Dodge motor with a Dodge body car. Well, after years and years of total pro sstock domination by the 500 c.i. big block Chevy motors in Camaros and other Chevy sheet metal, and recently having entire sixeen car fields made up of sixteen Camaros, they had to change that rule. But, to give credit where credit due, Allen Johnson won the Pro Stock title one year with his Dodge 500 inch power. So now we will be having Mustangs with 500 inch Chevy motors as well as Dodges. Why, easier to make them go weally weally fast! The bowtie domination is much like the MOPAR domination, complete, total, absolute domination by the hemi in top fuel and funny car since the beginning of time..
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Lol!! You've been stewing on this for a week and that's as good as you can do? Maybe your bow tie is tied a little tight..
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March 13, 2018 at
02:06:53 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dirtraceorbust on March 13 2018 at 01:17:15 PM
from motorhead748: 5 statements in his post.
1. using the word ford is no more than identifying an engine that is different from the norm? Answer: The NORM? Schatz in July or whenever will be a Ford and the others will be using using what, "the Norm". The Norm is now an engine. You mean a Chevy!! Oh, he's got the "norm" in his sprinter". How stupid!! why can crew chiefs, crew members, sprint car writers, Kistler, etc, use the word Chevy when talking about 410 engines in sprint car racing today. As Bob Mays wrote in Flat Out last month, "same basic engine design as sat between the frame rails in 1956. As Bob Trostle says in his book, in the 70s, he just went to a Chevy dealer and bought a Chevy small block. Then he says as stronger internal parts were produced (aluminum, titanium, etc), these strong parts were used but the design was the same.
2. As far as the ford having no connection to any ford engine, how do you know? Answer: Its a brand new engine built specifically for sprint car racing. Its not designed after anything Ford ever had in a car or truck, it has nothing to do with any Ford engine ever produced. Ask any crew chief involved in sprint car racing. But yes, you are correct, it has pistons and valves. Its like saying the Chevy engine that won so many Indy car races in the 80s and early 90s as well as multiple Indy car championships and six consecutive Indy 500s is related to chevy engines of the day. Hell, it was built for Chevy with Chevy money by llmor Engineering, had nothing in common with any Chevy engine of the day. Exactly like Schatz's future Shaver engine. The Widget.
3. I have no knowledge of what they (Shaver Ford) are using for a block & cylinder heads but I'd wager it has some lineage to some ford as much as the current crop of chevys have to a 265....? Answer: Yes it has the same amount of lineage to some Honda engine or Buick engine or Dodge engine or Chevy engine or any engine.
4. why would Schatz and Stewart have mixed feelings? Answer: Today's Shaver Chevy engines are producing 960 HP, that's why they might have mixed feelings, and the HP numbers are not going to sit at 960 but will continue to have increases in power year fter year..
5. I'm sure ford is footing the bill 100% and then some for the engine and I'd also wager that it's in the contract that they will not run it until it's at least as good as what they have now? Answer: We're waiting
Talking Chevy engines: Just read that the NHRA removed the requirement in Pro Stock racing that now if you have a Camaro you can have a Ford big block engine in it. Fat chance. If you have a Mustang steel body, you can have a Chevy big block engine, Same with Dodge steel body cars in pro stock, pick your engine. For decades, you had to run a Chevy motor with a Chevy car, Ford motor with a Ford body car, Dodge motor with a Dodge body car. Well, after years and years of total pro sstock domination by the 500 c.i. big block Chevy motors in Camaros and other Chevy sheet metal, and recently having entire sixeen car fields made up of sixteen Camaros, they had to change that rule. But, to give credit where credit due, Allen Johnson won the Pro Stock title one year with his Dodge 500 inch power. So now we will be having Mustangs with 500 inch Chevy motors as well as Dodges. Why, easier to make them go weally weally fast! The bowtie domination is much like the MOPAR domination, complete, total, absolute domination by the hemi in top fuel and funny car since the beginning of time..
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Did minthis run off with your wife/daughter/mom?
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March 13, 2018 at
02:19:00 PM
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Whatever happened to the Mopar motors? Could Ford's entry into the game end up going the same route?
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March 13, 2018 at
02:21:06 PM
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What I am failing to understand is, how is the current engine not based off of a chevy engine? I do not get it. 410s run aluminum blocks, and 360s run steel blocks. I know for a fact that there are many ASCS 360 engines that run junkyard blocks that have been machined from their stock days. And I am also pretty sure you can take the same All-pro heads that the outlaw guys are running and bolt them up to the same junkyard block ASCS 360 engine (Open 360 rules). Other than structural enhancements and other enhancements to parts, they are designed off of a chevy. For Christ's sake, some of you guys act like a sprint car 8 cylinder engine has 2 cylinders on the left side, 2 on the right, and two on the front and back perpendicular to the left and right. Of course, heads have better flow, spread port designs, aftermarket injection systems, but hell you can take a 2 3/16 hilborn injection that some still use on 360 racing, and bolt it up to a stock 23* 305 or 355 heads in your Chevy Malibou. Even with all the differences, they come from the same core design, which I think is the point some people are missing.
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March 13, 2018 at
08:25:40 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on March 13 2018 at 02:21:06 PM
What I am failing to understand is, how is the current engine not based off of a chevy engine? I do not get it. 410s run aluminum blocks, and 360s run steel blocks. I know for a fact that there are many ASCS 360 engines that run junkyard blocks that have been machined from their stock days. And I am also pretty sure you can take the same All-pro heads that the outlaw guys are running and bolt them up to the same junkyard block ASCS 360 engine (Open 360 rules). Other than structural enhancements and other enhancements to parts, they are designed off of a chevy. For Christ's sake, some of you guys act like a sprint car 8 cylinder engine has 2 cylinders on the left side, 2 on the right, and two on the front and back perpendicular to the left and right. Of course, heads have better flow, spread port designs, aftermarket injection systems, but hell you can take a 2 3/16 hilborn injection that some still use on 360 racing, and bolt it up to a stock 23* 305 or 355 heads in your Chevy Malibou. Even with all the differences, they come from the same core design, which I think is the point some people are missing.
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Same core design yes, but let's leave it at that. Saying you can bolt a set of all pro heads onto a junkyard 350 block is about the same as saying you can use a propeller off the Queen Mary on a modern cruise ship. Very little is the same or applicable without serious modification. In the case of a modern sprinter 410 SBC vs a stocker the angles for one are different on just about everything over than the 90 degree V. The increased deck height of the aftermarket blocks has allowed builders to find alot of power hidden in these motors.
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March 14, 2018 at
02:36:15 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: motorhead748 on March 13 2018 at 02:06:53 PM
Did minthis run off with your wife/daughter/mom?
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Good one.... ;)
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March 14, 2018 at
02:41:18 AM
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This message was edited on
March 14, 2018 at
08:13:11 PM by revjimk
I've been following this whole thread, still not sure exactly what you guys are arguing about.... Everybody knows they're using specialty race engines based on SBC, Schatz team is working on one based on SBF. So????
We'll see if they ever use it, right?
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March 14, 2018 at
04:43:01 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on March 14 2018 at 02:41:18 AM
I've been following this whole thread, still not sure exactly what you guys are arguing about.... Everybody knows they're using specialty race engines based on SBC, Schatz team is working on one based on SBF. So????
We'll see if they ever use it, right?
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I don't know if anyone is arguin, at least I'm not, but the OP gets on here rambling incoherently so why not give him something to raise his blood pressure? I fully understand that the current 410 can trace its roots to the 265 Chevy debuted in 55 but I also know that not 1 screw on them comes from GM.
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March 14, 2018 at
08:16:19 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: motorhead748 on March 14 2018 at 04:43:01 AM
I don't know if anyone is arguin, at least I'm not, but the OP gets on here rambling incoherently so why not give him something to raise his blood pressure? I fully understand that the current 410 can trace its roots to the 265 Chevy debuted in 55 but I also know that not 1 screw on them comes from GM.
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Right, we all know that.
I didn't understand OP either...definitely incoherent
Lets not mess with each others blood pressure...some of us are getting old! ;)
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