Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Yo De-Railed!!

You're clueless.

Both Sammy and Schatz fell victim to the way THEY RACED. Sammy tried to run away and hide, couldn't quite make it happen, and when Schatz chased him down and put some pressure on him, POP goes the Goodyear. In doing so Schatz used up his engine, and was passed by a very good racer who preserved his car while getting to the end in striking distance, and WON THE RACE!! And that is how it works in racing.

BTW, I drove home.

BTW 2, there is a reason Sammy has only ever won one Knoxville Nationals. I was there in 83 for that one, were you? If you know how he won, you know why I ask as it directly pertains to this discussion.

No, the earlier post actually stated Shaffer beat Schatz... not that he was a better driver. As far as Schatz wins: 2006 - Dewease flipped on his qualifying night and Rahmer and Dollansky both tangled up ending their nights in the scramble; who knows what effect that could have had on Schatz point total or if Dollansky would have had something for Schatz on Saturday. 2007 - Only one that had anything for Schatz on Saturday was McCarl who had a poor starting spot due to a car breaking on the opening lap of his heat on qualifying night putting T-Mac in a bad spot. 2008 - The most obvious, Tyler Walker and Shane Stewart late cautions helping Schatz catch Meyers and Saldana messing up the car on the opening lap of the scramble may have changed the entire outcome. 2009 - 7 cars broke during Schatz charge from 23rd on his qualifying night feature and Saldana probably didn't have as much tire as Schatz at the end of the 40 lap feature on Saturday.

You can go through the list of every champion of every race and point at "something" as an excuse or reason for the outcome to have been different or why someone got beat.

Point being, it is racing and there is always fortune (not luck... big difference) involved for the winning car to reach the top of the podium, but the best driver/car on that night is the one that finishes at the front. On Saturday night at the 50th nationals, Shaffer ran a better race than Schatz; you can tell because he was standing at the top of the podium with the trophy.

... congrats Timmy & will post results of invaders @ Grove Open this year or lack of them

... thinking ... when was last last time a Knoxville regular won a WOO or National show @ Knoxville?

dttfowtm ...  
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What are you smoking? You are comparing issues on qualifying night to things that happened in the LAST THREE LAPS OF A FIFTY LAP RACE?!?!?

Got nothing against you buddy, but this post is a little light on the facts.

2006: Really? Lance flipping in his qualifying night feature and Rahmer and Dollansky tangling in a scramble were as big a factor to Schatz winning that year than Schatz losing a cylinder with 2 to go was to Shaffer winning this year? Not to go all MSPN on you, but when have Lance and Rahmer ever been in contention on a Saturday night?

2007: Schatz was as dominant that year as anyone as ever been in the big races. I know, the Kings Royal, Knoxville Nats and National Open were all snoozefests that year and I went to them all.

2008: Definitely agree if Tyler Walker doesn't cause a yellow, Meyers wins, or maybe he doesn't becaause Shane Stewart did the EXACT same thing as Walker did after Schatz got the lead. Meyers couldn't get the job done, maybe because Schatz had all his cylinders working.....

2009: I'll take your word for it on the 7 cars breaking on his qualifying night, all I remember last year was Schatz passing Stevie and Saldana in the last 10 and driving away.

None of this is trying to take anything away from Shaffer. I was cheering as loudly as anyone when he passed the 15, because I've been to 6 Nationals prior to this year and Schatz won 4 of them. Shaffer was the 3rd best car, and put himself in a position to win, and got some luck when the two best cars had issues. This post started because someone stated that Shaffer outdrove or was a better driver that night. I tend to disagree with such a comment.

One more thhing, no one is going to remember any of this pissing match 20 years from now, anymore than they remember that Steve Kinser blew up while leading in 1990, paving the way for Bobby Allen to win. Shaffer has his name in the history books now, and I am very glad I witnessed an amazing race.

Absolutely.... "HOW" did they get there??? You can't run the final 3 laps if you don't get through the first 85 laps of the weekend. So engine failure on a qualifying night isn't as important as the A-main?? Ask Wolfgang; he drove his butt off a few Saturday nights and never made it to the top five due to qualifying night mechanical issues. Hard to imagine he wouldn't have been in contention for the win had he survived his qualifying nights.

"Light" on the facts.... don't think so. All of those accidents did occur... they are fact.

2006: Who cares what Rahmer and Dewease's past history is; Schatz may have started a row deeper on Saturday and could have had an effect. Schatz had won 4 in a row and look what happend last weekend! Dollansky had a great weekend going and may have beat Schatz on Saturday had he started up front; nobody knows.

2007: I agree Schatz was dominant, but (again) past history has nothing to do with it. Schatz had won 4 in a row and look what happend last weekend! McCarl was strong the entire weekend as well, but lost a bunch of points on qualifying night when he was slowed by an accident in his heat forcing him to comeback all night from the B-Main. McCarl may have had something for Schatz on Saturday night had they both been on the front row instead of T-Mac using up his tires fighting through the field.

2008: Who knows if Meyers would have won and you are not "agreeing" with me b/c I never said Meyers would have won. I simply pointed out two mechanical issues that had an effect on Schatz 2008 win after your contention that Schatz won 'em all without anything aiding his victories. And a reminder, I did point out Stewart's mechainical issue as it helped support my case.

2009: Perhaps if Saldana hadn't used his tires up then maybe he beats Schatz.... or Schatz may have started even deeper in the field on Saturday if the qualifying feature goes green-checkered.

Nobody knows what "could" have happened... just like last Saturday. Nobody knows that Schatz would have held off Shaffer the final three laps regardless of the mechanical issues. Just because "it happened in the past" doesn't mean it will happen again. What we do know is Schatz won all four of the events above and Shaffer beat Schatz on Saturday. It's racing; a it takes some fortune (not luck... big difference) for any of them to end up on the top of the podium. But the best car/driver that night is the one stading at the top in the end.

This post started b/c I stated "Shaffer beat Schatz" which is exactly what occured.

Wasn't it Sammy that blew up late in the race in 1990?

As I recall, Sammy had a oil leak, which oiled up his steering wheel, and he missed a corner or two so that resulted in Bobby Allen winning. That race was so close anyway but Sammy didn't blow up. That was a great one. I have a tape of it too.

.

Mark Kinser blew up under caution with 7 or 8 to go in 1990. Steve dropped out after starting on the Pole when his mag went bad (1/2 way down the backstretch on the opening lap), he stayed out for 15 laps or so).

Sammy had an oil leak and couldn't see (but he couldn't run the bottom either which is where Allen ran the entire race).

Wolfgang came from the "D" main up to 5th in the "A" that year (won the D, ran 2nd and final transfer in the C, Won the B from last with no cautions passing Keith Kauffman in traffic as I recall).

To me, this year and 1990 are the two biggest upsets, but 1988 is still the best "race" of the Nationals (Blaney battled with Bobby Davis, Jr for the lead much of the Race with Steve Kinser in 3rd. Steve passed them both in the same corner on lap 25 for the lead and unltimately the win).

Races are about finishing first regardless of what your competion does. Do you hear Olympic Sprinters saying that had so and so not pulled a hamstring in warmups that they'd be wearing a Silver instead of a Gold??

This is a fun debate we're having, but my posts were in response to this comment, and this comment only: "Tim Shaffer won Knoxville because he AND his car were better than Schatz.".

I understand the Schatz dislike and pulling for the underdog, I certainly was on Saturday, but the reason that Shaffer won was because Sammy blew a tire and Schatz lost a cylinder. That doesn't take anything away from the accomplishment, nor will anyone really care 20, 10 or 5 years from now.

Again, not one of those incidents posted above had even close to the effect on the Nationals as the leader of the race dropping a cylinder with 3 to go.

This was the start of the thread and it has branched out lol. And I've posted on this thread more times than I figured I would. Try this again. The fighting about if Shaffer is posse, all star, independent whatever is always presents in this kind of thread. Problem I had was rail's feeble attempt to reply too why Schatz got beat, yes got beat. In racing for the most part, whoever crosses the finish line first and gets the checkers beat the rest of the field. Unless he is dqed for whatever reason. Shaffer did that in the 50th Knoxville nationals and like its been posted on here, 5 -20 yrs down the road that is the only thing that will be remembered, not that Schatz should of won or Sammy, or anybody else that someone likes on here and had some sort of problem.

Agree to disagree

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Get um CUBIC

Lets not get stuck on STUPID

On Page 2, Posse goes backwards for tenth consecutive year or maybe longer, not that it's even news anymore, lol. Take It Easy...

This from the same Jerry Reigle (Lenny Sammons right hand man who basically puts the AARN paper together) who has labelled the organization Shaffer runs with as the "No Stars" on occasion when the Posse traditionally dominates the All Star race at the Grove.

The desperation to claim this win for the Posse is truly comical. The money actually went to Ohio, where the car is based. I guess 20 years of getting your butts kicked at Knoxville will make people do/say strange things.

KNOXVILLE, Iowa - By Brian Liskai -(8-15-10) Defending O'Reilly Auto Parts All Star Circuit of Champions titlest (and current point leader) Tim Shaffer is arguably the hottest sprint car driver in the country. He proved that Saturday, becoming the first driver in nearly 20 years who is not a regular with the World of Outlaws to win the world's biggest sprint car race, the 50th Annual Goodyear Knoxville Nationals presented by Lucas Oil.

From the All Stars website, since no one from Ohio/All Stars (other than the brilliant 410James) seems to post on here, here is their rebuttal to this nonsense.