Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

     It's been my observation that a lot of things that were built at race tracks over the years were constructed of salvaged materials and jerry-rigged together.  The reason they used steel I-beams  most likely wasn't because anyone anticipated that a sprint car would be hitting the billboards, it was more likely because someone had some surplus I-beams they sold cheap.

           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMSzkyqLnlk

raider, here ya' go...

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Could be.

I agree with your post that we need to improve safety.   However, I am not sure I agree with the means.   While it has been several years that I have been to Beaver Dam, I never considered it a shit hole track.   I though it was one of the nicer tracks in the area.    I have definitely been to tracks that were not nearly as nice as Beaver Dam.   Many of those tracks don't have the infrastructure or the finacial support to host a national traveling series.   Those tracks will never be improved by the national series. 

The lack of a catch fence on a concrete wall is definitely an issue, but it is not an issue solely owned by Beaver Dam.   There are many tracks in the country that have the same configuration.  Perhaps the major sanctioning bodies agree to a 2020 or 2021 plan that all tracks that host one of their events have a minimum safety improvement plan.   Give the tracks some time to budget and improve the facilities.  Having a wall without a catch fence would be one item.   Another item that I still see at some tracks is telephone poles used in the fencing.   This is another no-win situation. 

Has anyone else noticed the similarities (VERY SIMILAR) of the wreck Lynton Jeffrey had at Knoxville Friday night? He was very lucky to walk away. His left front seemed to colapse similarly as reports of Jason Johnson's wreck were heard too. In both incidents the other car continued on with no observable damage to the right (rear) side of the car where contact seemed to have occured. Not even a bent wheel or flat tire. BCRA Hall of Fame race driver Bob Machin commented perhaps the left front spindles were breaking. If this is so, with the extreme conditions involved today, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS COMPONENT ON THE RACE CARS or we may be loosing more drivers. Perhaps the loss of our beloved Jason Johnson will help to save other race drivers from a similar fate. USAC use to have a rule that such components needed magniflux checks as a routine after a crash or as standard preparation for their race cars. Obviously, a broken spindal at 100+ MPH on dirt will most likely result in a catistrophic situation, unfortunatly. Magniflux testing is not inexpensive but compared to what happens to a race car in such instances not to mention the driver, it's affordable. How often do seat belts get changed after a hard wreck? Would they be worth changing more often if it could help save one of our heros? Have we gotten too acustomed to just replacing a wing after a car gets upside down and getting back in the race if possible as the most important thing? 

Slot car I agree with how similar both crashes were and the fact the front wheel folded up so easy. Neither hit looked hard enough that it should have completely broken the spindle off like it did. Hopefully the WoO officials have kept both front wheel assemblies from these crashes to compare failure modes on both to see if there is a spindle issue. 

When I used my flight deck experience as an illustration my point was that no matter how much safety is Incorporated in the machinery and surroundings bad things are going to happen from time to time.  Burns, paralyzing injuries, closed head injuries, and sometimes worse.

Safety will be looked at by the people who make those decisions.  As far as fans go, it is up to each one of us to decide if we will partake of a form of entertainment that has that kind of potential.  When you have those kinds of speed and forces involved the potential for a bad experience always exists.

In our case when we lost a pilot or shipmate there was no time to think about it.  We had to repair damaged equipment if necessary and be at our post for the next launch.  I guess that and other life experiences have made me kind of insensitive to these kinds of things.  The first thing I think of is the machines and the processes that are in place.  It's really not my business but that's how I'm programmed to think.

Stan Meissner

I really doubt that the spindle broke in either case.  When you catch a RR wrong, the reaction forces fed through the LF cause the nose to dive and dig the frame rail into the track and the flips begin. Speaking from experience.

How does a sideways impact on the LF cause the nose to dive? How many LF failures occur compared to RR failures in such incidents? The RR tire has large surface area, low air pressure and a stout rear axel able to absorbe heavy impact. The LF has a smaller tire, higher pressure and a relatively fragile suspension subject to failure on impact. Something has to give. In large vs small, larger is the winner almost every time. The numbers seem to indicate a weak point in the LF area. 

catch fence...if they dont have it dont race there..end of discussion

Really? Who are you kidding? The catch fence at Knoxville didn't seem to help Lynton Jeffrey's race car at all from being totaly destroyed last Friday night.

yea really..wouldnt of landed on wall...pretty simple..no catch fence no race..its elementry bud..two guys same spot in 4 years..they wont race ther next year if no catch fence...im pretty sure you dont know whats going on

pretty simple...fast track with wall...no catch fence..no race....and cars will be better safety next year...god bless all

Ok, you're right. We shouldn't get overly concerned about mechanical failures causing violent wrecks in the first place as long as we can have more catch fences installed in the bad spots around racetracks. Peace brother...

I think, my opinion here, that the cars are pretty damned safe.  The tracks can do some safety measures.  I dont think making the cars "safer" wil help but could do the opposite.  I would think they would want the cars to come apart, dissipate energy?  Didnt Nascar find that helping dissipate the energy kept the drivers safer?  So the driver didnt absorb all the energy in a wreck. 

Also the tracks can do alot but I highly doubt they will all be perfect.  Small tracks dont have the income to do that.  Catch fences are a must tho. 

And lets be honest, they can make em as safe as possible and they can make the tracks as safe as possible, but there will still be situations where there are injuries and even fatalities. 

Jason's wreck wasn't caused by mechanical failure, it was a collision

A halo with a foam filled attenuator would really be worth trying. Normal halo in the center, then do a second halo on top of thinner tubing wo locate the foam filled carbon boxed attenuator. 

These have been used on the back of formula car gearboxes to great effect, as they had a similar problem with energy transfer. Would add minimal expense and weight, and exsisting cages could be modified to fit. It would need to be crash studied but should be doable and inexpensive. 

I actually race in road racing professionally but love the dirt as well, if there's someone who can contact someone in the major sanctioning bodies or constructors I'm sure I could introduce them to people who could help

The catch fence wasn't supposed to keep Lynton's car from getting destroyed.   Did Lynton's car come down cage first on a concrete wall?    Of course it didn't since Knoxville doesn't have one.    Knoxville's crash fence (or any crash fence) flush with the top of the wall at Beaver Dam probably would have made a difference.       

Example of an attenuator. One of these but mounted vertically (and packaged differently for the job)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228412036_Design_of_the_impact_attenuator_for_a_formula_student_racing_car_Numerical_simulation_of_the_impact_crash_test

100% on the money. Time for all tracks to address these issues before we see another "thoughts and prayers for ___________" post on this board.