Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

"I am willing to bet everyoone (or almost everyone) understood the rule and the consequences just fine."

While I don't disagree with most of your post, I think this is a reach based on what has happened since last night.

I was there and am a big Posse fan......and you are absolutely correct, if it was Reutzel, Blaney and Eliason, the fans would not have said a thing. The loser in my eyes was BAPS Speedway. They had a huge crowd and hopefully it doesn't have a long term effect for future sprint car shows at the Speedway. Every dirt track in America needs a few "home runs" each season crowd wise to keep the doors open. By the way, those who left missed a hell of a feature. McIntyre & Blaney put on quite a battle.

I can't speak for everybody but here is how is see the crowd's reaction. These disqualifications weren't because of anything the driver did. As I stated in my prior post, I see this as a communication problem but that was unknown at the time. Dietrich getting disqualified angered some fans and there were some that immediately got up and left while others cheered. What we did know was this penalty was because of something the crew did not the driver. Dietrich is a polarizing driver so anything negative that happens to him is going to bring cheers from some. His crew is young and them making a blunder I saw as possible. Ryan Smith and Anthony Macri were announced as being DQ'd when Dietrich was announced. It went a little before it was announced that Lance and Skyler Gee had now been DQ'd. When it was announced that the 69k made a similar blunder, that left me scratching my head. The experience that crew has and they did something that got Lance DQ'd seemed odd. Anybody can make a mistake but I just felt something was off. With it being 5 cars total you just knew there had to be a story there. The realization quickly hit me and I think everyone else that without making a lap every local car in the first four rows was now gone. No I'm not saying there was a conspiracy but it certainly didn't look good. I don't think the mass exit was all about Lance it was the situation in general and that was the final straw. I saw people leave that I know are loyal to no particular driver get up and walk out. I stayed and watched the race and left soon after the interviews. When I exited the track I walked through the tunnel to find 5 police cars parked outside lights flashing. I felt bad that what this night was about, honoring our military, turned into such a fiasco.  

I walked out lap one, would do it again if given the chance. I am happy I did it, and happy to have been walking out with about 50% of the fans at the track. I slept great last night knowing that I didn't miss anything that was remotely worth watching, and I'll continue to sleep great knowing ASCOC won't get another dime from me as long as the current staff is in place. Way too much else to spend my time and money on these days than to deal with stuff like that. I go to about 70-80 races a year, now I'll go to 60-70, skip the all stars and enjoy some time away from racing. 

You have every right to feel the way you do......and deep down inside I admire you for your convictions. I on the other hand have been going to races in Central Pa for over 35 years. I have seen a lot (including the time Steve Kinser was sent to the rear at Williams Grove when apparently someone, not associated with his team, was mistaken as a crew member by the officials under a red)......mistakes happen.....Despite two of my favorites ( DD & Dewease) getting the boot, I still feel like I got my monies worth for a few hours of entertainment on a beautiful night, plus that and the fact I live 85 miles from the track. I would hate to see BAPS suffer after Scott has put so much time, effort and money into reviving the old joint. I want all of our Central Pa tracks to be successful and just hope the affected drivers and the fans put this incident behind and continue to support the sport we all love...... As far as I could tell, the sun did rise this morning and there will be more sprint car races for us to enjoy this weekend

Your last sentence is all that needs to be said. This will blow over and be forgotten about in a couple weeks

You have every right to feel the way you do......and deep down inside I admire you for your convictions. I on the other hand have been going to races in Central Pa for over 35 years. I have seen a lot (including the time Steve Kinser was sent to the rear at Williams Grove when apparently someone, not associated with his team, was mistaken as a crew member by the officials under a red)......mistakes happen.....Despite two of my favorites ( DD & Dewease) getting the boot, I still feel like I got my monies worth for a few hours of entertainment on a beautiful night, plus that and the fact I live 85 miles from the track. I would hate to see BAPS suffer after Scott has put so much time, effort and money into reviving the old joint. I want all of our Central Pa tracks to be successful and just hope the affected drivers and the fans put this incident behind and continue to support the sport we all love...... As far as I could tell, the sun did rise this morning and there will be more sprint car races for us to enjoy this weekend

I was there last night and being from Pa, I do take pride in our local cars.  I can see how others in the Country can view Posse fans as arrogant based on a very small but outspoken percentage of fans.  A majority of Pa fans want to see a good race and if the locals get beat, thety will give credit where credit is due on that night.  What happened last night was a gigantic gong show which makes you question how that could even happen with a "professional' series.  Was there a big conspiracy, I would say absolutely not.  Was there a gigantic lapse of judgement from the race director, I would say absolutely yes.  If the tip came from another team and not actually seen by the All Star officials like previously stated in this thread, then no enforcement should ever had taken place.  The job of any official is to collaborate with other officials and see if the penalty actually took place.  If they didn't see it, they can't call it.  No different then any other sport. 

Another issue is the lack of communication.  I stood in the drivers meeting and they did mention these cones (just like the 12 second video shows).  However there was no elaboration on consequences, no explanation really at all.  The race directors job in these meetings is too explain these situations, especially specific rules to their series - he did not.  This was not a common place rule known at every track, this was a very specific rule for the All Stars and he did not explain this at all - period.  For the announcer to keep saying that this was specifically explained in the drivers meeting was an out and out lie, they did not explain it and again makes the series look very bad.  Five cars got dq'd last night, Larson got dq's a month ago.  So out of the six, five are not All Start regulars.  That would clearly indicate to me that they are not addressing this in the drivers meetings in a way that teams are able to understand and that falls 100% on the race director.   BAPS is not Knoxville and to try and put all those teams in a box like they would do with Quarter Midget parents is absurd.  The All Stars failed in a huge way last night and ruined what should have been a great night for the Snyder family and the rest of the military families that attended.

You have every right to feel the way you do......and deep down inside I admire you for your convictions. I on the other hand have been going to races in Central Pa for over 35 years. I have seen a lot (including the time Steve Kinser was sent to the rear at Williams Grove when apparently someone, not associated with his team, was mistaken as a crew member by the officials under a red)......mistakes happen.....Despite two of my favorites ( DD & Dewease) getting the boot, I still feel like I got my monies worth for a few hours of entertainment on a beautiful night, plus that and the fact I live 85 miles from the track. I would hate to see BAPS suffer after Scott has put so much time, effort and money into reviving the old joint. I want all of our Central Pa tracks to be successful and just hope the affected drivers and the fans put this incident behind and continue to support the sport we all love...... As far as I could tell, the sun did rise this morning and there will be more sprint car races for us to enjoy this weekend

Good points made but I will play devil's advocate.  

When I enter a school zone there is a sign that basically says "you're entering a school zone."  There is not a giant moose, like the one at Wallyworld, explaining the penalty for speeding in a school zone. 

When I get on the highway, I see a no passing zone.  There is not an elaborate sign explaining the consequences of passing in one of these zones.

When drivers are told where the scales are, is there a lengthy discussion about the penalty if caught underweight?  They all know it's a DQ.  

So, in the driver's meeting, if the director of the meeting says "this coned area is where the crews can be" does that not mean "you know, the area you must be because if you don't, your car will be DQ'd like Larson's was for example"  ??  Or, if you don't understand what the coned area is for, has anyone ever heard the expression "there is no such thing as a dumb question"  ?    I am willing to bet everyone (or almost everyone) understood the rule and consequences just fine.  

I know a lot of people on here may not have Facebook but there are several pages of people that are losing their minds over this and throwing temper tantrums over the ruling, and today within 24hrs this thread already has 70+ replies on it. Several people have posted something from a Krietz 69 page (not sure if it is actually from the team) of a 12 second clip where the offical at the drivers meeting basically states where the cones are for team members to stay during the night. In the post it states that they were not told that they would be disqualified for leaving the area. So basically they are acknowledging that they heard the offical state that but they just did not understand how bad the punishment would be and don't agree with it?? Well if you don't break the rule then you don't have to worry about the consequences. More teams followed the rule than broke it. Other tracks have had the same rule in the past and so far prior to last night only 1 team has not followed it (Larson's crew). So the enforcement of the rules has been consistent by the All Stars.

I think Dakota Dude stated the best question and I would say the following. If it were 5 All Star drivers that were DQ'd last night then this is not as big of an issue as it is now. Since it was PA or local drivers racing a sanction race by one of those "EVIL" sanctioning bodies that a lot of people hate on message boards because they somehow "have it out for the local guy" its now an issue when its not. Rules are rules and they can be changed which is what the All Stars will do. 2wks from now it will all have blown over, the 69K or another Posse car will probably win at Port Royal, they will probably say something about this in victory lane, the crowd will go wild, and the All Stars will be back in central PA next year.

I know a lot of people on here may not have Facebook but there are several pages of people that are losing their minds over this and throwing temper tantrums over the ruling, and today within 24hrs this thread already has 70+ replies on it. Several people have posted something from a Krietz 69 page (not sure if it is actually from the team) of a 12 second clip where the offical at the drivers meeting basically states where the cones are for team members to stay during the night. In the post it states that they were not told that they would be disqualified for leaving the area. So basically they are acknowledging that they heard the offical state that but they just did not understand how bad the punishment would be and don't agree with it?? Well if you don't break the rule then you don't have to worry about the consequences. More teams followed the rule than broke it. Other tracks have had the same rule in the past and so far prior to last night only 1 team has not followed it (Larson's crew). So the enforcement of the rules has been consistent by the All Stars.

I think Dakota Dude stated the best question and I would say the following. If it were 5 All Star drivers that were DQ'd last night then this is not as big of an issue as it is now. Since it was PA or local drivers racing a sanction race by one of those "EVIL" sanctioning bodies that a lot of people hate on message boards because they somehow "have it out for the local guy" its now an issue when its not. Rules are rules and they can be changed which is what the All Stars will do. 2wks from now it will all have blown over, the 69K or another Posse car will probably win at Port Royal, they will probably say something about this in victory lane, the crowd will go wild, and the All Stars will be back in central PA next year.

It’s hilarious they think that 12 second video benefits their case, when 1- it explicitly mentions the cones and work area and 2- its literally a tiny snippet of the meeting.

Like I said above I agree with you, this will be blown over. I’m sure a few Posse fans will carry it on and continue to be mad, but 98% of everyone else will forget about it and the ASCoC races in September will have great crowds. I remember Larson getting DQ’d for this had an uproar that literally was gone within a few days. The only reason this will take a few weeks is the all-stars will be back in PA soon. 

"Boycotting" the All Stars only hurts the local tracks and the local teams.  The Sanctioning fee have already or will be paid if you show up or not.  The All Stars do not get a piece of every ticket sold so basically the All Stars will not feel an affect and the track paying the purse will get the full impact.  Which mean they lose money and then next’s years race will probably pay less.  I understand people are upset about what happened, but I think there are a lot of people overreacting and I hope no one person or team skip the 2 highest un outlaw sanction events in our area.  It took years to build these races to get this big, let not ruin them over 1 race.