Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

2009 was the year the streak started. 9 straight Posse wins, only 1 win for WoO/outsiders from 2009-2010.

if you asked, what about since 2011, it would be 20 to 17 Outsiders. Just a way to cut the data.

I am definitely not a Lance fan but have been to Knoxville when Kraig Kinser,Tim Shaffer and the Late Jason Johnson won how many of these three had a shot before they won ? Heck you could even add Brad Sweet before this year.

No Shot??????????

On williamsgrove.com under history/past winners/ world of outlaw winners.  Have total wins and wins each year.  Might be off a couple.  Not sure how you count darah's, and a couple of others

I’ll repeat, no shot. 

No big deal. I'm aware of th site and location of history stats for the Grove. I would put Darrah with one as Posse and one as Outlaw, as he was an Outlaw when he got his win in 2012. As for who your couple others are, don't know who you mean. Regardless it doesn't really matter. Like you said, depends when and how you start keeping score.  I would consider Dewease, Hodnett, Kreitz Jr, Stevie Smith, and Fred Rahmer the elder statesmen of the Posse over the past 10 years....2009-2018. That being said, they have 20 WoO wins at the Grove over that ten year period. Tells me two things, first off the Outlaws aint shit as a group compared to what they once were, and the same goes for the rest of the Posse. Those same Posse guys mentoned have most of the Posse wins as a group brfore 2009, also if I'm not mistaken. So did those older Posse guys get better or did the Outlaws as a group, and the Posse as a group fall off?  Schatz, Jason Meyers and Gravel have pretty much carried the ball for the Outlaws since 2009, speaking of the Grove results. Meyers of course retired, and Gravel is just now coming in to his own, other than that the rest of the Outlaws have been pretty much no shows at the Grove the past ten years.  Old timers Steve and Sammy each have one, Shane Stewart has one and Pittman two I believe over those ten years. My point is that the Posse and the Outlaws both really need to concentrate on finding new talent. 

No Tusky 50 makeup race?

Really???

Now that I look back, i guess pittman's 2011 win was in heffner's car, so that is another pa win(???) Also i am not sure sammy's win in 2010 was with the outlaws or if he was more running all over and scelzi this year.  Regardless those two are not pa wins.  These are the ones I was talking about.  So if we don't count them as outlaw wins and you are comparing pa vs outlaw the numbers get even more favorable for pa.   Overall since outlaws started, it looks to be somewhere around pa 76 to outsider 131.  Again just a quick count.  Not sure about some wins like Wolfgang, Kauffman, Chris eash, stevie smith, scruffy etc.

It is on their schedule.  That was just what was in the immediate future.

As far as the drivers you mentioned, for those years those drivers were running for Outlaw points, they were Outlaws. Other years they were Posse.  As for Wolfgang, his three wins at the Grove during the Weikert years imo are invader.....not Outlaw and by the way he was consistantly booed by the Posse fans, not Posse. But it was only three wins so who cares.

I am not sure if you were at races and heard Wolfgang consistantly booed or just heard it somewhere. I was at a lot of the races that he won and don't remember that. If you were at some races and heard some people boo him keep in mind that if Jesus were the win too many some fans would boo him.

Actually it was Doug himself telling me about his experiences in PA some years back. It was mostly at Williams Grove where he heard the majority of the boos. He makes a point of that in his book, also. Even Bob Weikert is on tape doing an interview after a race win, "Yeh you boo us this week but you'll be cheering us next week when we beat the Outlaws". And I know Doug heard some cheers out there, also. After a win at the Tuscarora 50 in 1985, one of the contingency prizes was a case of PBR. Doug said that he "knew Pabst was Van Mays favorite drink and that he would only drink half the case and save the other half of the case and drink it with Van when he got out of the hospital". As you know, Van was hurt pretty bad  that same night ar the Tuscarora 50. The crowd appreciated Doug's thought.

this man you speak of, Doug Wolfgang, I met & spoke with 1 time. It was while standing in line at a go-kart facility in Fargo. a genuine class act in my book. we bs'd about everything from him racing at our small hometown track in Santa Maria, Ca. to his unfortunate accident & a lot of stuff in between. I got to get after it with him out on that kart track, what a riot, i laughed so hard had tears for days. dude was a badass

I dont know which side of the arguement you put him on but the last time Sammy won the National Open he was NOT an Outlaw regular that year Remember him holding off Lance and being glad that a neutral driver won .like this year at The Dirt Classic way to go Tim,Great move for him coming in could have ran in New York or got rained out with the All Srars

Sammy was a nuetral invader in 2010 driving the Big Game Treestands #1.