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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: Gravel wreck Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 3 of 3   of  56 replies
StaggerLee
MyWebsite
February 12, 2018 at 05:19:27 PM
Joined: 05/14/2014
Posts: 645
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NEWS FLASH! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A SPRINT CAR 100% SAFE. DEATH IS PART OF RACING, THAT'S WHY WE DONT ALL RACE, ITS FREAKING DANGEROUS AND YOU CAN GET KILLED DOING IT. TAKE AWAY THE RISK OF DEATH OR INJURY AND YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE BIRD WATCHING.  EVERY OWNER, DRIVER, CREW MEMBER AND FAN KNOWS THAT DEATH IS A POSSIBLE OUTCOME OF RACING. THERE IS NO ONE TO BLAME OR POINT FINGERS AT.  IT IS NOT A MATTER OF "IF" SOMEONE WILL DIE IN THE FUTURE RACING SPRINT CARS, ITS "WHEN" WILL THE NEXT DRIVER DIE RACING A SPRINT CAR. IT WILL HAPPEN GAURENTEED, JUST LIKE TAXES. YOU PICKED THE WRONG SPECTATOR SPORT IF YOU DONT WANT TO DEAL WITH TRADGEDY.



revjimk
February 12, 2018 at 05:39:25 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 3486
Reply

WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER ELIMINATE THE CHANCE OF DEATH, BUT IT ONLY MAKES SENSE TO MINIMIZE IT!

Do you think when they went from the oldtime little roll bars to full cages, it became "bird watching?



StaggerLee
MyWebsite
February 12, 2018 at 06:23:17 PM
Joined: 05/14/2014
Posts: 645
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No Rev, apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I said eliminate the possibility of death or injury and you might as well be bird watching, not minimize risk and you might as well be bird watching. 

Sooo, any other pointless comments Rev? 



fiXXXer
February 12, 2018 at 09:15:59 PM
Joined: 10/26/2014
Posts: 1364
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This message was edited on February 12, 2018 at 09:17:08 PM by fiXXXer
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on February 12 2018 at 05:39:25 PM

WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER ELIMINATE THE CHANCE OF DEATH, BUT IT ONLY MAKES SENSE TO MINIMIZE IT!

Do you think when they went from the oldtime little roll bars to full cages, it became "bird watching?



I remember talking to an old timer when I was a kid (unfortunately his name escapes me) who actually raced without a cage at one of the Williams Grove old timers shows and he told me he pretty much lost interest when they started using rollcages because he felt that with that new added sense of protection, drivers didn't think twice about racing each other like dicks whereas without the cages, they raced a lot cleaner. 



hardon
February 12, 2018 at 10:26:32 PM
Joined: 02/20/2005
Posts: 36
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on February 12 2018 at 06:23:17 PM

No Rev, apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I said eliminate the possibility of death or injury and you might as well be bird watching, not minimize risk and you might as well be bird watching. 

Sooo, any other pointless comments Rev? 



I get what you're saying completely.  It's not that you're trying to say you enjoy or look forward to tradgedy but that unfortunately it will happen.  I heard it said once that safety is a moving target.  It also seems like everytime a safety feature is added, there is also a new danger that's added.  For example I heard a football analyst talk about eliminating helmet to helmet hits and he said "You want to eliminate helmet to helmet hits?  Take away the helmets and we won't see another helmet to helmet or head to head hit."  So the helmet added safety but the players used this to cause another danger.  

I also want to add that unfortunately these accidents getting attention depends on who it happens to.  Look at Dale Earnheardt.  Three other people were killed the year before with the same injury but once it happened to Dale Earnheardt then it was time for changes to be made.  Also look at the Kevin Ward/Tony Stewart incident.  If that didn't involve Tony Stewart would it have been a national news story?  Would there be rule changes in virtually every racing series to force people to stay in their cars while other cars are moving on the track?  The only reason I bring this up is that it is fortunate that cars are going to get safer because of this event and nobody paid the ultimate price for it.  However there will always be danger in this sport.



blazer00
February 13, 2018 at 12:22:06 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1527
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Reply to:
Posted By: fiXXXer on February 12 2018 at 09:15:59 PM

I remember talking to an old timer when I was a kid (unfortunately his name escapes me) who actually raced without a cage at one of the Williams Grove old timers shows and he told me he pretty much lost interest when they started using rollcages because he felt that with that new added sense of protection, drivers didn't think twice about racing each other like dicks whereas without the cages, they raced a lot cleaner. 



I can understand how certain drivers from that era may have felt that way. But, I'm not so sure there were many drivers that began racing like dicks, or less clean than previous to the cages. I do suspect however, that drivers probably began racing much closer than they had been, and I can see how that might not go over well with some of the drivers back then. Even today, some drivers shy away from extremely close racing. That's obvious in some of the reactions seen by a driver when you see a couple cars get "real close". But, in the end, the closer racing had to make racing more exciting, and many more race outcomes and race positions were in doubt throughout a race. Plus, the better racers are capable of close racing without making contact, and that skill usually sets them apart from the rest. Isn't that what we all go to see? Close racing? I sure do, I hate it when they get all strung out, and I hate racing crashes! I was at arace many years ago, when the second place driver ridiculed the winning driver for not backing off some and giving the other guy more space. He alluded to backing off himself, and settling for second. I won't mention names, both are known, but the "other" driver was one of the very best. His response to the criticism was pretty simple. "If he can't handle close, clean racing for a win, he needs to quit!"



revjimk
February 13, 2018 at 02:26:48 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 3486
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Reply to:
Posted By: StaggerLee on February 12 2018 at 06:23:17 PM

No Rev, apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I said eliminate the possibility of death or injury and you might as well be bird watching, not minimize risk and you might as well be bird watching. 

Sooo, any other pointless comments Rev? 



Sorry, I understood your comment perfectly well. I just disagree. 

"eliminate the possibility of death or injury and you might as well be bird watching".... nope, it would still be dangerous & exciting. I can understand broken bones as acceptable risk, but I would love to see death, paralysis, or severe burns completely eliminated if possible...  wouldn't you?



ilikeposse
February 13, 2018 at 05:35:00 AM
Joined: 05/10/2017
Posts: 51
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on February 12 2018 at 08:45:05 AM

     Can you explain what you mean by halos and chicken bars?


     Around here, one of the tracks made the non-wing sprint class add what they called halos on top of the rollcages. It was basically just another set of top bars set about 6" above the existing ones on the car. It seems like it would be no different than making the rollcage 6" taller.



halos-  many different types, especially on non wing cars.  Normally consisting of an added 1,2,3 or even 4 bars just above the drivers seat and head helping protect them from other cars running into top of cage, but they're still left open in front so driver can get out if need be.

chicken bars- the bars on side of cockpit.  nowadays they usually consist of a bent tube from top to bottom of cage with a support brace to the seat bar location.  in the 80's and 90's many people just had a bent bar straight across from front to back about elbow height.

Due to the cars "not flexing" or "reacting properly" many people don't run them.  I guess they like broken arms, head injuries or even worse...instead of their safety.  Makes sense!

It's almost as dumb as someone saying, my car has never caught fire before, I'm not going to wear a nomex firesuit, it's too hot out!



Dryslick Willie
February 13, 2018 at 11:28:11 AM
Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 1091
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Reply to:
Posted By: ilikeposse on February 13 2018 at 05:35:00 AM

halos-  many different types, especially on non wing cars.  Normally consisting of an added 1,2,3 or even 4 bars just above the drivers seat and head helping protect them from other cars running into top of cage, but they're still left open in front so driver can get out if need be.

chicken bars- the bars on side of cockpit.  nowadays they usually consist of a bent tube from top to bottom of cage with a support brace to the seat bar location.  in the 80's and 90's many people just had a bent bar straight across from front to back about elbow height.

Due to the cars "not flexing" or "reacting properly" many people don't run them.  I guess they like broken arms, head injuries or even worse...instead of their safety.  Makes sense!

It's almost as dumb as someone saying, my car has never caught fire before, I'm not going to wear a nomex firesuit, it's too hot out!



I got a big kick out of your last comment because that kind of happened to my brother.   Back in the early 80's many of the tracks didn't require driver suits.   There were even drivers that raced in shorts occasionally.   My brother didn't want to spend the money to buy one, nor would he patch a big hole in the firewall right by the throttle pedal.    Eventually he had an engine blow and the resulting ball of fire came through that hole, caught his jeans on fire and caused him to bail out of the car while it was still moving.  He managed to get the fire out by rolling in mud and wasn't hurt beyond losing all the hair on his legs.    The next week he's back with a new engine, the hold in the firewall patched, and a brand new firesuit!   Kinda amazing how that works ain't it????



mikemracing
February 13, 2018 at 11:49:13 AM
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 34
Reply

Ilikeposse is 100% correct about the saftey (chicken) bars. They already make a safer sprint car chassis but some people think they don't work as well as a non saftey bar car.



cheroger
February 13, 2018 at 02:06:45 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 858
Reply

In addition to research and development of a safer roll cage, a redesign of the front bumper deserves a review.  Sprint car front ends with torsion bars creates an extremely rigid and somewhat narrow measurment.  Generally the bumper is only attached at two points  to the main rails and even narrower than the torsion tubes width.  Wouldn't a wider and taller bumber attached in four places, wide enough so that the bumper wouldn't be as likely to allow the chassis to enter the drivers area?  It would also absorb some of the energy even if the accident was violent enough to allow the chassis to spear the drivers area.  Comments?



Keyboard Jockey
February 13, 2018 at 03:13:15 PM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 234
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on February 13 2018 at 02:06:45 PM

In addition to research and development of a safer roll cage, a redesign of the front bumper deserves a review.  Sprint car front ends with torsion bars creates an extremely rigid and somewhat narrow measurment.  Generally the bumper is only attached at two points  to the main rails and even narrower than the torsion tubes width.  Wouldn't a wider and taller bumber attached in four places, wide enough so that the bumper wouldn't be as likely to allow the chassis to enter the drivers area?  It would also absorb some of the energy even if the accident was violent enough to allow the chassis to spear the drivers area.  Comments?



You are only thinking about the front bumber if the contact of the bumper and drivers area were perpendicular. If it hits at another angle having only the bigger bumper creates a worse situation IMO. I think the discussion is great to have, but it is going to take multiple changes to different areas of the car to effectivly change. 



cubicdollars
February 17, 2018 at 09:29:17 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4127
Reply

Tried searching for picture of gravel wreck to see the damage.

Couldn't come up with anything racing related other than Gravel wrecking Stevie Smith for the National Open win.

 


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com


J&J
February 17, 2018 at 10:11:54 AM
Joined: 08/17/2012
Posts: 225
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on February 17 2018 at 09:29:17 AM

Tried searching for picture of gravel wreck to see the damage.

Couldn't come up with anything racing related other than Gravel wrecking Stevie Smith for the National Open win.

 



you my friend are TOUCHED. OR MUST HAVE BEEN DROPPED ON YOUR HEAD. OR SUFFER PTSD

GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF . YOU ARE a true tool



straight shooter
February 17, 2018 at 10:49:45 AM
Joined: 03/21/2010
Posts: 215
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: cheroger on February 13 2018 at 02:06:45 PM

In addition to research and development of a safer roll cage, a redesign of the front bumper deserves a review.  Sprint car front ends with torsion bars creates an extremely rigid and somewhat narrow measurment.  Generally the bumper is only attached at two points  to the main rails and even narrower than the torsion tubes width.  Wouldn't a wider and taller bumber attached in four places, wide enough so that the bumper wouldn't be as likely to allow the chassis to enter the drivers area?  It would also absorb some of the energy even if the accident was violent enough to allow the chassis to spear the drivers area.  Comments?



If anyone who watched the video can see that the front bumper looks unscathed on the front of the 49 car. I still feel this crash was caused from the flipping action of hitting in the opposite direction that these cars normally crash. Almost all cages are built angled to the rear of the car because of the direction the cars are going. When you reverse the direction as in this accident the force of the 1st hit of the cage into the track moved everything forward which snapped the top right side roll cage & also the left front downtube due to rigidty of the opposite effect. The bar that Barry is adding to the cage now actually helps to give a nother triangulation to the cage to help prevent the force of landing on the cage in the rear position as this was.



cubicdollars
February 17, 2018 at 11:02:34 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4127
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: J&J on February 17 2018 at 10:11:54 AM

you my friend are TOUCHED. OR MUST HAVE BEEN DROPPED ON YOUR HEAD. OR SUFFER PTSD

GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF . YOU ARE a true tool



lol

https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-chive-on-56.png


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com


sprintfast
February 17, 2018 at 03:56:38 PM
Joined: 07/01/2012
Posts: 168
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on February 17 2018 at 11:02:34 AM

lol

https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-chive-on-56.png



Cubicdollars making Hoseheads Great since 2005!





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