Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Is it bullshit even if the TV commentators talk about it?   Cause that happened several times and not just with the 48 team.   Why wouldn't someone use a race to test a setup if they were already locked in and didn't need a good finish?   

Wow I sparked a big debate here lol.  I have to say that I am not going to go back and look through the stats as I just don't care that much.  However IN MY OPINION only there is only 2 years since the chase started that I don't believe real champion would or could have won the title under a different system.  2004 in the first year of the chase there is a few things I remember from that year were in the middle of the summer Jimmie Johnson had a huge lead, to the point where he could have sat out a race or two and still be leading the points.  Then he blew engines 3 or 4 weeks in a row, later it came out that the engine builder (Randy Dorton) was experimenting with different engine packages (which makes sence since he was the only Hendrick car blowing engines).  When the chase started he was involved in a wreck or something else the first 3 or 4 weeks.  Many had wrote him off however after crashing out in 3 or 4 races, but in a 10 race system where he had poor finishes in 3-4 of the 10 races I think he ended up losing the championship by less than 20 points.  It was widely publicized that Jeff Gordon scored the most points that year outscoring Kurt Busch by a bunch of points.  However Jimmie johnson was the forgotten man in that debate, if you take out the month or so of blowing engines I think he wins that championship.  So if I could argue about what "would've, could've, should've" I think Jimmie Johnson would be an 8 time champ.  Obviously Kyle Busch winning his championship was BS in my opinion (and I think most would agree).

I'm not a Jimmie Johnson fan either but you can't argue that the Johnson/Knaus combo has to be one of the best combos in all of racing history, they won many races when they had no where near the best car through the pit strategy or whatever.  I was the one that said they probably coasted, I think experimenting is a better choice of words.  I have not followed NASCAR real close since about 2006, but I have to assume (which can be dangerous lol) that since the chase era began Jimmie Johnson has to be the winningest driver by a wide margin.

Like I said and dryslick willie agrees with the racers will race the system.  I think there was a horse shoe for them to win their 7th championship but I can't definitively say they wouldn't have won either.

To quote Tony Stewart when asked about the chase format after having a huge lead leading up to the chase and asking if he thought it was an unfair system (I'm paraphrasing here) "The old system?  We haven't raced the old system in 7 or 8 years, what difference does it make, we know the rules when season starts so it doesn't make any difference what it would have been under the old system, why are we still talking about this after all these years?"

I will say that I was really happy to see Truex win today, not because of all he's been through but he was the best car all year long.  I don't think anyone can debate that he's a deserving champion.

Here are the actual stats Old Points/Chase Points  2004-2016. In other words:  36 race schedule champion/Chase champion

2004: Gordon/Kurt Busch.    2005: Stewart/Stewart.   2006: Johnson/Johnson    2007: Gordon/Johnson.  2008: Edwards/Johnson

2009: Johnson/Johnson.            2010: Harvick/Johnson               2011: Edwards/Stewart.                2012: Keslowski/Keslowski 

2013: Johnson/Johnson.             2014: Gordon/Harvick.               2015: Harvick/Busch.                       2016: Harvick/Johnson

So in thirteen years of the Chase, the winner of the 10 race series has won the season championship 8 times. (don't have the comparison for 2017)

Thanks for taking the time for those stats.  That's interesting to see, honestly I would have thought it would have been less than 8 of 13 scoring the most points and winning the chase.  Obviously there is no proof to my theory but do you think it's possible that drivers raced different under the chase system then the old system?

On the original topic though.  My opinion is what Kyle Larson did this year is astonishing considering he's driving a Chip Ganassi car.  I doubted Kyle Larson would ever be successful in NASCAR for the simple reason he drove for Chip Ganassi.  Before this the only what I would call a successful or competitive year was when Sterling Marlin drove for him in 2001 I think.  He has a ton of talent, I just hope he can get in a competitive car.  (Hope I don't offend anyone with this)

Who can say, really? I have a hard time thinking that drivers and teams with the sponsor obligations and such.....the money structure.....bonuses for winning etc..... don't race for the win at every event. That being said, I do think that when it came to the last few races leading up to the chase that the drivers qualified were maybe more conservative. Not wanting to risk injury for example. And I do recall the announcers talking about teams trying different things leading up to the chase, but that was happening very late in the regular season. Proof that the 48 team put the effort out in the regular season, is the fact that three times they were the leader in points at the beginning of the chase, and did hold on to win. So it appears both "seasons" were important to them. There's no disputing that the 48 team dominated the chase races to win all those titles. And there is no doubt, based on the two points systems, that the 48 team would not have overtaken the points leader in the last ten races had it not been for a reconfiguration of the points that created the chase. I sure as hell wouldn't consider a track champion to be a track champion, if during a 14 race season, the only race the driver 4th in season points wins is the last race of the year, making him the track champion. That in a way is what NASCAR has done to their season championship title, and in my opinion it's a shallow title more often than not,  and it sucks.