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Topic: Let's give this an AJ Foyt type effort Tony Stewart
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Page 3 of 3 of 57 replies
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February 07, 2017 at
08:33:31 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: HatCreek66 on February 07 2017 at 07:24:38 AM
I read the rules governing engines per the WoO 2016 Rule Book. It is as follows:
The Canted Valve argument:
Rule 15.1 J. Cylinder heads must retain a traditional valve pattern. Rotation of the vlaves will not be permitted. Canted or Splayed Valve cylinder heads must be approved prior to introduction or competition.
That seems pretty self explanitory to me. If you want to run a spalyed valve or canted valve configuration as you suggest, all someone has to do is submit it to the sanctioning body for approval, though it does not look as if anyone has done so, yet. I am sure TSR will do just that.
The Distributor Placement Argument:
Rule 15.1 D. Engines with the magneto and/or distibutor in a forward mounted and/or front mounted position will be allowed but must be approved prior to competition. Engines with the magneto and/or distibutor mounted in the stock OEM production position for the block and engine must be apporved prior to competition.
Approved Front Drive Magneto System: Moroso 60205 & 60206
Again seems pretty clear, you can run a front drive mag if you submit it to the santioning body for approval.
Rule 15.1 R. New engine components and/or new engine configurations must be submitted and approved per the World Of Outlaws Craftsman Sprint Car Series Engine Builder 's Guide prior to being introduced for competition.
Full disclosure, I have never seen this "engine builders guide", but that being said, it seems clear you can introduce whatever engine combination you want to, within the rules, and if approved you can race it.
So what have I pointed out ....... if you want to race a Ford, pony up the money, submit the parts or engine, and then the sanctioning body will consdier it for competition. They can disapprove it sure, but my bet is that "He who has the money, will get what they want" JMHO
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I haven't seen a splayed valve chev at a woo race since the 90s. Yeley had some in his wingless car several years ago. Does anyone know what "traditional" valve pattern means? Sounds like a quick way of saying something like a small block chevy had in the 60s to me. Does anyone know what they mean by no rotation of the valve means. Do they mean the valve can't spin or does it refer to placement? All this sounds like silly stuff to make sure you can't run anything remotely like the best Fords.
I bet this was written with help from a mechanic, car owner or driver that Shaver's Ford spanked for years.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 07, 2017 at
08:52:50 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 07 2017 at 08:33:31 AM
I haven't seen a splayed valve chev at a woo race since the 90s. Yeley had some in his wingless car several years ago. Does anyone know what "traditional" valve pattern means? Sounds like a quick way of saying something like a small block chevy had in the 60s to me. Does anyone know what they mean by no rotation of the valve means. Do they mean the valve can't spin or does it refer to placement? All this sounds like silly stuff to make sure you can't run anything remotely like the best Fords.
I bet this was written with help from a mechanic, car owner or driver that Shaver's Ford spanked for years.
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I know for a fact that WoO won't allow anything that evolved from or is remotely similar to Luna's engines.... TSR/Ford involvement/money or not.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 07, 2017 at
09:33:36 AM
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04/21/2014
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 07 2017 at 08:33:31 AM
I haven't seen a splayed valve chev at a woo race since the 90s. Yeley had some in his wingless car several years ago. Does anyone know what "traditional" valve pattern means? Sounds like a quick way of saying something like a small block chevy had in the 60s to me. Does anyone know what they mean by no rotation of the valve means. Do they mean the valve can't spin or does it refer to placement? All this sounds like silly stuff to make sure you can't run anything remotely like the best Fords.
I bet this was written with help from a mechanic, car owner or driver that Shaver's Ford spanked for years.
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What will it take to make you stop making post after post about the Outlaws and Fords? What do you want, an apology from the WoO? Lets say you are right about everything you are saying, now what? Is there an endgame to your Ford lust or do you plan on posting this same bullshit until your dead? It's time to move on minty, find another trivial point to hang your hat on. We get it, you believe that the WoO has conspired to keep Fords out of 410 racing. The WoO don't mind Fords in their late model series so I guess it's not a conspiracy against Fords In general, just in Sprintcars and Fords. Look at all the money the WoO makes by keeping Fords out of 410's. The WoO sprintcar series netted an incredible $000000000.00 in 2016 by keeping those superior Fords off the track. With big money like that who can blame them. Even more crazy is the fact that this year some teams may be running Ford 410's, I guess that puts an end to your WoO hates Ford debate. So...........can you give this crap a rest and see what the 2017 season brings, heck your favorite driver Donny Schatz will probably win another championship with a Ford under the hood, be patient minty. BTW the Discovery channel is doing a 3 night documentary on the WoO vs. Ford conspiracy in march, they actually have footage of one of the WoO rule makers sitting down with a mechanic and car owner who had been getting beat by one of Shavers Fords, and they filmed the 3 of them making rules to keep Fords out, finally the truth will be told!
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February 07, 2017 at
09:37:29 AM
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OK
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 07, 2017 at
11:20:14 AM
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11/02/2013
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529
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 07 2017 at 08:52:50 AM
I know for a fact that WoO won't allow anything that evolved from or is remotely similar to Luna's engines.... TSR/Ford involvement/money or not.
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Forgot to change your username to support your case?????
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February 07, 2017 at
03:57:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: kossuth on February 07 2017 at 11:20:14 AM
Forgot to change your username to support your case?????
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Busted!!!! LOL!!!!!!
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February 07, 2017 at
03:58:21 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: DONT KNOW DONT CARE on February 07 2017 at 09:33:36 AM
What will it take to make you stop making post after post about the Outlaws and Fords? What do you want, an apology from the WoO? Lets say you are right about everything you are saying, now what? Is there an endgame to your Ford lust or do you plan on posting this same bullshit until your dead? It's time to move on minty, find another trivial point to hang your hat on. We get it, you believe that the WoO has conspired to keep Fords out of 410 racing. The WoO don't mind Fords in their late model series so I guess it's not a conspiracy against Fords In general, just in Sprintcars and Fords. Look at all the money the WoO makes by keeping Fords out of 410's. The WoO sprintcar series netted an incredible $000000000.00 in 2016 by keeping those superior Fords off the track. With big money like that who can blame them. Even more crazy is the fact that this year some teams may be running Ford 410's, I guess that puts an end to your WoO hates Ford debate. So...........can you give this crap a rest and see what the 2017 season brings, heck your favorite driver Donny Schatz will probably win another championship with a Ford under the hood, be patient minty. BTW the Discovery channel is doing a 3 night documentary on the WoO vs. Ford conspiracy in march, they actually have footage of one of the WoO rule makers sitting down with a mechanic and car owner who had been getting beat by one of Shavers Fords, and they filmed the 3 of them making rules to keep Fords out, finally the truth will be told!
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+1,000,000
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February 08, 2017 at
12:22:31 AM
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Sorry I cant resist. I see smoke still has a chev in the 14 as well. This tells me they must be casting an all new Windsor style head.... basically starting from scratch. If someone truly feels these rules are meant to strictly keep costs down, I've got some ocean front property in Knoxville for sale.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 08, 2017 at
01:34:21 AM
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correct me if i'm wrong here but...isn't it ROUSH/YATES doin the sprint car engine developement..... NOT shaver?....why pay someone else to do all the R/D when your MAIN engine supplier has everything set up to do this already?...seems like a no brainer to me.
“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science
gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.”
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February 08, 2017 at
07:38:26 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: raidersam67 on February 08 2017 at 01:34:21 AM
correct me if i'm wrong here but...isn't it ROUSH/YATES doin the sprint car engine developement..... NOT shaver?....why pay someone else to do all the R/D when your MAIN engine supplier has everything set up to do this already?...seems like a no brainer to me.
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It is not about power as they keep changing the rules to try and unhook the cars and each rule costs money.Close competitive racing is what people want even if they are a few ticks slower.More power will cost everyone more money and the purses will remain the same.
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February 08, 2017 at
07:42:35 AM
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This message was edited on
February 08, 2017 at
10:18:05 AM by minthess
Reply to:
Posted By: raidersam67 on February 08 2017 at 01:34:21 AM
correct me if i'm wrong here but...isn't it ROUSH/YATES doin the sprint car engine developement..... NOT shaver?....why pay someone else to do all the R/D when your MAIN engine supplier has everything set up to do this already?...seems like a no brainer to me.
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The RY guys are all talented gentlemen. More than capable of dominating when allowed to use proper parts (they've proven it since the instant they put something in a late model).... always willing to take time to talk to clueless fans like me too But if you want to defy all the experts and beat them by half a lap in the gooo with your Ford, you call Ronnie Shaver.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 08, 2017 at
07:45:00 AM
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598
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Reply to:
Posted By: raidersam67 on February 08 2017 at 01:34:21 AM
correct me if i'm wrong here but...isn't it ROUSH/YATES doin the sprint car engine developement..... NOT shaver?....why pay someone else to do all the R/D when your MAIN engine supplier has everything set up to do this already?...seems like a no brainer to me.
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I'm guessing there may be some interaction between the two. But you have to consider that Shaver knows exactly the bar that needs to be met to be competitive with what has been the most dominant combination in sprint cars over the last 10 years. Couple that with the fact that RY's expertise is with the D3 & FR9? Headed motors not to mention that nobody (maybe one) would say that the RY sprintcar program was wildly successful and it's a pretty ez to see who gets the job of development.
Either way I'd hate to see the bill for the motors at the end of the year. The amount of $$ that the NASCAR guys are accustomed to spending on motors is beyond astronomical. My buddy had his D3 motor freshened up at RY and although I didn't see the bill & didn't ask I was told that the spark plugs were $1000 for 1 set, $1200 for a set of piston rings , and I thought he said $3200 for a set of lifters. Dirt track sprint cars can not support anything close to that. It makes $50K motors seem like a bargain.
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February 09, 2017 at
08:10:58 AM
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Does anyone know what rotated means in the WoO rule book? I guess ignorance truly is bliss.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 09, 2017 at
08:18:14 AM
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12/09/2008
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Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on February 06 2017 at 10:53:42 PM
Who cares if a not really Ford beats a not really chevy. The TS Ford engines may have been in works at Shaver for a years. The parts will not be anything inside like they were in 1990, but say the Ford head may look similar on outside. They would not screw around with things if it were not already WOO approved. Shaver uses his own head design on chevys, could he not also do the same thing with Ford. Also Roach may have provided alot of info on this moter.
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You are right. That's my whole point here. If all this finally happens before Jesus returns its still not going to be a big deal because they are being forced to make sure its very similar to traditional chev stuff. Once again, its still better than screaming about where the driver lives or acting like running the bottom deserves a nickname.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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February 09, 2017 at
11:10:23 AM
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529
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 09 2017 at 08:10:58 AM
Does anyone know what rotated means in the WoO rule book? I guess ignorance truly is bliss.
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Rotating valves are basically that. The valve spring or the valve retainer ride on a bearing type pad and the valve can rotate If forces imposed in it wish it to be. There is no mechanism that rotates the valves other than the natural forces in the motor. One of the benefits of rotating is it helps eliminate hot spots on the valve faces and helps keep engin deposits from building up. Not sure if there is an HP advantage but the above reasons are why you see them in industrial engines. I do imagine they add quite a bit of weight to the valvetrain though and could cause valve float issues particularly in high rpm motors.
So in short as best I can tell they banned something that might have some longevity benefits, but could cause other longevity concerns.
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February 09, 2017 at
11:45:06 AM
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Your explanation is accurate for rotatING valves that were used in the exhaust valve for heat reasons as you mentioned. ...But the question was for rotated valves. This is when the entire valve/port location is rotated slightly in the cylinder. Think instead of the valves being at 9&3 they are at 10&4. The valves are no longer all inline. There were some after market small block ford Windsor heads with this feature. They retained use of the stock manifolds and were intended for street use. There may have been some for sbc as well.
I'm not at all sure but it seems I remember that when one of the big NASCAR guys (Yates or Waddell Wilson maybe) modifying the then available can head to more closely resemble rotated as opposed to canted. I could be wrong tho.
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February 09, 2017 at
11:45:32 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on February 08 2017 at 12:22:31 AM
Sorry I cant resist. I see smoke still has a chev in the 14 as well. This tells me they must be casting an all new Windsor style head.... basically starting from scratch. If someone truly feels these rules are meant to strictly keep costs down, I've got some ocean front property in Knoxville for sale.
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Whaa? So if Rico Abreu still has a Chevy in his car, does that mean he's casting a Pontiac style head?
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February 09, 2017 at
03:53:27 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: motorhead748 on February 09 2017 at 11:45:06 AM
Your explanation is accurate for rotatING valves that were used in the exhaust valve for heat reasons as you mentioned. ...But the question was for rotated valves. This is when the entire valve/port location is rotated slightly in the cylinder. Think instead of the valves being at 9&3 they are at 10&4. The valves are no longer all inline. There were some after market small block ford Windsor heads with this feature. They retained use of the stock manifolds and were intended for street use. There may have been some for sbc as well.
I'm not at all sure but it seems I remember that when one of the big NASCAR guys (Yates or Waddell Wilson maybe) modifying the then available can head to more closely resemble rotated as opposed to canted. I could be wrong tho.
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So whether rotation means rotating or rotated.... both a passenger car head with valves that prevent carbon build up and a Jon Kaase Windsor head are outlawed by the outlaws. Many thanks. I think we're all learning here
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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