Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Love your sense  of humor ,but  maybe it's time to put these words to work or make a plan of action  to make racing great again not just average to bring in more new fans .Let me tell say this  ," I am a fan that cares more about you and everyone involved in racing whether you don't agree with me or not" .

Thanks for caring so much about me Bob....trust me, I'll be just fine without your care.

You say the same stuff over and over.... I do not believe you can provide me with empirical evidence that the racing in 410's is worse today than it has been at any time over the past 15-20 years.  I remember lamenting car counts in PA 20 years ago, and then they rebounded...they go back and forth.  I remember hearing multiple times over the last 20 years that the Outlaws were dead, and yet they consistently are keeping 13-15 regulars on their roster every year and their big races are bigger than they have ever been.

Last year I saw great winged 410 races and Lincoln, Charlotte, Knoxville, Port Royal and Williams Grove.  I also saw some mediocre ones at the above mentioned tracks as well as some stinkers both at those tracks and elsewhere.  That is the nature of dirt track racing.  I even saw a couple so-so wingless shows (I know....shocked).  THe Eastern Storm races this years were not barn-burners across the board.  And possibly the most exciting race I saw all year was a too long (50 lap) race on a hammer down half mile...and we all know that big tracks don't give us good racing right?  In case you didn't figure it out, that race was the A Main at the Nationals.

The reason we don't care to put our words to work and make a plan of action is because we actually like a lot of the racing we see.  It is not that it couldn't be better....but one thing I know for sure, just from reading your posts is that what you think is not what the majority thinks, and even if there were things that could be better....you don't know enough about the cars, or the business to be the one leading the charge.

The only thing you mentioned to reduce costs was a spec engine, smaller wings and smaller tires cost about the same. So how much cheaper would the spec motor be? Would it be cheap enough to save 410 racing? Doubtful. 

At the end of the day, those who can afford to race 410's will, and the others will have to look into those inexpensive ASCS spec 360's, or those super cheap 40k 305's.  As someone else has already stated, Ive seen lean years in 410's and Ive seen fat years.  Right now 410 Sprintcar racing is as fat and strong as its ever been. There my be less cars overall but there are more cars with a chance to win than ever.  Back in the day we may have had more cars but only a handful were competative, way more field filling garage built junk on the track back then.  Ill believe Sprintcar racing is dying when I see these guys get rid of the 500k toter homes and 25k pit buggies and tow with open trailers and a pick up truck and carry the tools in a wagon so they can afford to race, Talk about wasted money that does nothing to reduce costs. 

AS far as Ryan Smith and Brent Marks go, good for them, i hope they do great and live out their racing dreams on the road.  I think it s foolish to blame the Allstars or WoO for stealing them away LOL, thats just silly.  I think our car counts will be just fine in Pa, 1 or 2 leave and 1 or 2 move up to 410's. They will not be the last 2 drivers from Pa to go on the road so brace yourselves for 2018.

The 500k toters and 25k pit buggies aren't being used by the average racer. You know that. So you don't see that the high costs today are preventing new teams to emerge? Then what explains the fact that there are many really good drivers scrambling to find rides?

Spot on. Just like you, I saw a lot of good races at all those tracks plus a few others and I saw so-so races at those same tracks. Every race can't be great. Racing has been that way since it's inception. There were good races and bad races back in the day just like there is now. Altman doesn't have a clue. He just spouts bullshit hoping someday someone will actually take him serious. No one ever has and I suspect no one ever will. All he's ever done is have a few imaginary fan clubs over the years that flopped and has graced this and other forums with his posts about how us fans are being treated poorly by certain racetracks & sanctioning bodies. We're still waiting to hear the details about how he'd implement and enforce the rules concerning his proposed "home built engine incentive."

Thanks again for  all your kind comments , I am glad you think I have no clue . I know more then you believe I do , but you can think what you want about me . Yes , I never said the racing was poor , I said it can be improved . I know it will change from night to night on how the track is , we see that all the time especially  at the Grove where it is usually a one groove track , run high only unless you are able to set up your car to run low or the middle ,as demonstrated by Lance Dewease . As far  as racing goes it was much better years ago when everyone built there own cars , made homemade parts, and creative cars were the norm . There is no innovation today as everyone has the same car , so the logical way to create better racing is to free  up the cars more but it won't happen as today's drivers and sanctioning groups love what they have .  I don'tknow all the answers but I do know the fans deserve to see closer racing for what they pay . Your opinion of me sir should be kept to yourself and not displayed on these pages , because sir YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IN REFERENCE TO ME . I know this is a fun game to you but take things semi serious and maybe you would think about what is good for you and others . Why go with the flow as anything can be improved , can't they . Most groups care only about making the money on you or all fans , not what they can do for you .

I am sorry that I obviously annoy you ,I guess you don't like to read my thoughts or ideas . No, MR. FORD97 it does not bother me , yes I am calm about what is said but you guys make comments and you don't even know me . But as I say you can say what you want .  I guess Mr. FORD97 you are happy the way things are going in racing , no I am not , I would love to see it all improve more  for the drivers, teams and of course the fans . Our future fans are coming fast but not enough is being done to cultivate the new fanbase with all the ways a person can find  to spend their hard earned dollars. This concerns me ,  doesn't it concern you ? . I have nothing to hide that is why I use my real name , not hide behind a username like most people do on here .( I  am sorry i  got away from the topic , other readers , these statements have to be replied back to.)

Were you dropped on your head at birth or did your brain injury occur some time between then and now?

It obviously doesn't concern us enough to take what you say seriously.  Please stop trying to tell me how much better racing used to be, or try to convince me how much I should be concerned about it now.  You thank everyone for their comments but can't accept the fact that most of us do not agree with your solutions, even in the areas where some things could be tweaked to make them better.  Except for the early 20th century with the huge number of midgets, the mid 20th century with Indy Cars, and the 90's with NASCAR, racing has always been a niche sport.  And the domination of a few over the rest of the field was much more pronounced decades ago than it even is today.  That does not make for better racing, in that sense racing has never had more competitive balance than it does now.

BTW, the fans are spending their money....and do you know where they are spending it....on Outlaw shows, on other big money events, and at places like the Chili Bowl.  I don't understand why you think the sanctioning bodies and drivers and teams shouldn't be trying to make money from the fans.  Racing is a business.  And most of them still do it for the love of the sport, because if you think most people in racing are making boatloads (even WRG) then you are more delusional than I thought.  As the old saying goes, the best way to make a small fortune in racing is to start with a big fortune.  However, there does need to be some profit for them, when it comes to trying to make a profit off the consumers (fans), any industry that has consumers is self-regulating, if no one spends money to consume it, there won't be any money to produce it and it will fail. 

RIght now, the things in dirt track racing that have a modicum of success are modifieds (not northeast), big sanctioning body Sprint Car racing, and National touring late models....with some regional promotions doing ok as well.  So how about, instead of blaming the successful ones for everyone elses problems, why don't you focus on local issues instead.  Why break the parts of racing that aren't broken or expect those who are actually having some success to abandon that and try something different?

Can we stop all the personal attacks?

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 x Infinity

I think that almost all of us wish that could happen, but sadly, it won't!!

As long as people use the internet as an invisible shield against having to answer for their actions, it won't and can't happen. There are far too many people who have bought into the fact that they, and they alone, are correct about certain things (and most of them believe that they are right about EVERYTHING).

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Agreed.  How dare you make complete sense on here...haha.  Do you think the majority of society does not possess the cognitive ability to have an opinion but also be able to objectively reflect upon said opinion and not see it as a complete, unapeachable fact in perpetuity...?

I second that , everyone has opinions and let a person's opinion be his or here opinion , I am not trying  change anyone's opinion , I am just stating the way  I see it .

To get back to topic , yes anytime you lose a driver is not good , so let's hope we gain back a few more . That is hard  to do these days to get new blood or a new owner in the business these day ,so that a young driver has a place to start . A lot of families are financing there son or daughter these days in racing , it is very common more so in USAC but it is showing up  in other divisions as well .

Honestly, I'm beginning to seriously doubt the majority of society's ability to do ANYTHING properly.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

That reminds me of a conversation I had many years a go with an individual who had a degree in law........he made the remark that "the general public sure is stupid, I wonder how many of them even get by!" With that I responded, "yeh I know what you mean. I'm in the car business, then of course to me, you're part of the general public!" He didn't like it much but I figured what the hell. None of us are above any one else regardless of what we might think and know, or better yet, what we think we might know.

Robert, rather than blaming the WoO for falling car counts, maybe you should blame the 305's.  305's steal way more cars than the outlaws do.  And if you think the state of sprint car racing is so bad, spend 2017 attending asphalt stock car races.  Spec engines, bodies and underpowered cars have made those unwatchable for me.  Face it Robert. these are the good old days, so enjoy them while they are here, and let the rest of us enjoy them too.

If you car as nuch as you say you do put some skin in the game.  Work at a track FOR FREE!, or take over an idle track and get it up and running.  What is happening Clinton County these days?  That may be an option.  Now, if you were to go work at a track that you weren't in charge of, you would have to realize that you weren't the boss,  you would actually have to prove your worth BEFORE people started to use your ideas.  

Until any of the above are happening, I have to ask what are YOU doing?  And posting on a message board is doing NOTHING.  So, if you want to see more cars, build a car. iIf you want see home built engines, build an engine, if you want better track prep, learn to drive a grader,  if you want to see better promotion, become a promoter.  But please please stop telling others what they should or should not like.  I like my stupid fast sprint cars, I think we should have turbos, nitro, 20 inch wide D10s on the right rear and 8x8 wings.  I want to make these things so fast that mortals can't drive them, then balls and talent will matter more than money.  That's what I want out of my racing, and I don't care if 5 cars finish the feature and they are separated by 2 laps.  I want badass cars and badass drivers, otherwise it's just another game.

Just because they were in the top ten in points dont mean they ran every race at the Grove......Stevie made top 5 in 2014 and only ran TT shows. so that point is invalad.  Those 4 teams were not the only teams to run all Speedweek races..Smith and Marks did not make every Grove race....Besides when you said a big hit. I figured you meant in PA not just the Grove...Smith and Marks missed races at every track. Still had good car counts those night. Hogue who's he...I simply stated we did fine with them on the road for many races of the 16 season. I already stated the reason the car counts are the way they are at the Saturday tracks.

If you remember corrrectly we in Pa had many 3 day shows for many weeks before and after Speedweek. more than years past. More racing as in years past. See the Fans and racers all wanted more races. We got them then bitch because cars didnt show up to some..It's not like we have The Big $ car owers of the 80s and 90s. So with ALL the races added and Big shows before and after Freds last Path valley race. He aint stupid. He knew teams were down to the last of spare parts, and would likely hurt the car count. So instead of making fans pay 20 bucks for a show that may only bring in 12 cars. He decided to drop the 410s from his last race. If you read and can compmprehend it says as much in artical i posted in link above. He thought of the fans and teams pockets before his own. Something more promotors should do. Don't you think he talks to teams in the pits and already had an idea leading up to this race that teams were not gonna show. 

Slink 51 sorry you feel that Hogue a fomer National rookie of the year and top five in points at Lincoln is nobody.I dont know about you but a am willing to travel 6 hours from Lingelstown to see a good race with a quality field of cars and go to both Port and Lincoln an even amount if you cant see the quality of cars in Pa. for regular shows is dropping off you are blinded by something.

I made every race that Fred has had at Path and saw the car count drop every race,actually right now I dont have a favorite driver but Little Fred would probably be the closest .

Like I said maybe you can answer when are the races at Path this year.,are they having a Speedweek race?