Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I have no dog in this fight but I will give some perspective on what I have experienced with the 305's at Knoxville Raceway. I have ran a Knoxville 305 (with and without a dry sump), a 305 Racesaver (top of the line) and now a Pace Evolution CT525 crate engine at Knoxville Raceway in the past 10 years. Yes, you can build a 8K ~ 12K Racesaver engine and be competitive at  1/3 mile track but when it comes to Knoxville Raceway it’s a total different beast. Knoxville will eat up and chew that motor to pieces and you will be starting with new cheap parts again. I experienced it the first time I raced at Knoxville and watched it with many new comers. 

I made the switch to the Pace Evolution CT525 crate engine last year with four races to go in the season.

Pros:

• Cost - It was economically feasible to go this route. Check out their website (PacePerformance.com) to see everything that is included yourself. A restrictor plate can be altered to make it more /less competitive with the traditional Knoxville 305 engine. 
• Aluminum block - I did not have to spend $500 or more in titanium bolts and parts to reduce weight on the sprint car, (minimum weight is 1550 lbs.). Before the switch, I was 100 lbs. heavy. Now, I have actually had to add weight to the car and do not need to invest in titanium bolts and parts. 
• Maintenance – I now have one less night in the shop with engine maintenance.  Now I get to enjoy one more family night during the week with my young children. All I do now is clean the carburetor Sunday morning to prevent corroding from methanol. We cannot touch the engine as everything is sealed. No more running the valves, cleaning the fuel injection nozzles, etc.
• Knowledge - I am fortunate to be surrounded by individuals with a lot of engine knowledge but a new individual getting started in the sport does not have to worry about fuel settings, running valves, etc.  They are on the same playing field with others that have been in the sport a long time (when it comes to engines). 

Best, 

Matthew Stelzer

#99 305 Knoxville Driver

RaceSaver's goal is simple.  Give every competitor as level playing field as possible without needing the deep pockets to do so. 

You can go buy a good used motor for about 8-10K and as long as you pay attention to fuel and maintenance you can go 50+ races without a rebuild or even changing the valve springs.  You can then also get everything brand new for about 18-22K. 

I want to remind everyone the data that I am giving you is based off running 3 of the biggest sprint car tracks in the United States; Port Royal, Williams Grove, and Selinsgrove.  At no point do the engines breathe very much at either of those places. 

While the winners share of the purses are small in comparison to a 410 or even 360 event, the payout through the field is fairly consistent with the 24th place finisher recieving approximately 40-50% of what the winner received.  For instance if you are racing for $300 to win, youre receving $150 to start.  When you compare the 410's purse the average is $4,500 to win with $350 to start, on the surface it may seem like it could be better to go 410, and based on your region it may be. 

However,  Take into consideration what your going to pay for a good competitive 410, especially on a big track like Port Royal, Williams Grove, or Knoxville.  Then also look at how many tires you will go through with a 410 especially over the summer when the tracks get slick, as compared to the less horsepower of a RaceSaver engine. On top of that how much fuel will you burn in a 410 in one night compared to a RaceSaver.  Add into the cost of things that are allowed in a 410 that are not in Race Saver (Bleeders, Wing Silders)

Finally the Rebuild.  On a 410, you may get 15 nights without a rebuild on a 410 if you have a good maintenance program.  But how much will that rebuild be, also take a rotating assembly like a rear or driveline, if youre going to be competitive, youre going to be monitoring those closer and cycling new/rebuild more often.

The point I am trying to make is, it costs alot more just maintain a 410 and be fairly competitive than it does to be respectfully competitve in a RaceSaver deal.

Ultimately which deal do you will have more fun competitng?  Thats the main reason RaceSaver exists, not to be a stepping stone, but to race and have fun. 

The CT525 makes more sense than a top of the line 305.When the present 305s are used up the whole class will be running the crate motors .Will they still be called 305s?Looks like several Micro pilots are moving up to the 305 class as the 600 Micro engines are costing about the same.It all starts out with affordable racing and it seems like the racers themselves make it more expensive.The Racesaver has the right idea and need to keep their present program to be affordable and still have fun. 

Of course a micro sprint motor is 15k and a 305 is 20-25 even though they pay basically nothing to win and the extra 25hp makes absolutely no difference in the racing. Racers have proven time and time again that we're all dumb when it comes to rules and containing costs. Instead if addressing and fixing the problems we just keep adding more new unessesary divisions. The crate motors are 100% the way to go as long as they seal them and do regular tech.

How on earth are they getting 20-25k for 305 builds? Someone told me they heard someone spent 19k on one and I thought that was high. I've seen solid race winning 358s built for less quite a bit less than that. From talking to some drivers here in PA it seems most of them are not running engines that expensive and are still competitive.

Thanks,

Jeff.

I saw a used ryder 305 on here a few months back for I believe 22k. Granted it was new in 2016 but still. Ridiculous 

Because as was posted before and as we all know, racers will spend whatever they can even if they don't have to!!!!

I contacted the builder of the Assasin engines and asked how much for a Racesaver engine. Here are his figures:

A long block, minus injection and magneto: $6,250

A complete, ready to go, top of the line motor/engine complete with injection and magneto: $9,500. He has lower priced engines for sale also.

You can pay as much as you want, and pay for a "Name", but they all are within 10 or so horsepower.

I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks 
anywhere.

Expensive one's... hey but they advertise them for 'a crate late 604, 5995.00' but they forget to tell you that after you get all the accessories that are needed you cost goes off the chart. 14 to 26K for a 604.  20 to 26K, yes for a fringing 305. Cheaper than a 410, I can hear it now. They race for peanuts. Unless your a top 5 car in the 305 class, your losing your a**.  A used 410 running at the end of a feature is making more than most 305's. O, and don't forget, you can only take that motor to a authorized rebuilder.