Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I like that idea...

Let's all pray Tony reads this so he can make the needed adjustments to make it perfect qualifying per hoseheads. No matter how they qualify it will benefit some more than others and it will never make everyone happy. I watched the revenge draw this summer a couple of times and it was alright, some guys it helped some it hurt, it's just another way to Line up the first couple rows. I have never cared about the Allstars but this year is actually exciting again, glad they are trying somthing different.

Not a fan of the revenge draw.  Leads to people making deals behind the sceenes, politics off the track.  Just make everyone draw their own number and make it simple.  So the heat races have no invert?  What's the point of running heat races then? 

Eric Arnold
Social Media Manager & Track Historian
Knoxville Raceway

Australians have no idea what they are doing when it comes to

formats. 2 heats are done in the blazing sun, ruins the track for feature races and teams are

known to use up to 10 rear tires in one night!!! 

10 RR's in 1 night....Ahhh c'mon now...They dont even put the car on the track that many times!

I believe I said 10 rear tires. 

Hot laps, time trials, 2 heats, shootout  or b main and feature race.  Do the math my friend, almost unbelievable but true! This is why Parramatta ( sydney speedway ) is doing so well. They went to an American style format ( 1 heat ) less tires, less chance for equipment to be torn up. 

The revenge draw is ok for an occasional spice, but agree that it shouldn't be the norm.  

You apparently weren't following along EA!  The invert is 4 based on your qualifying group.  It's basically the old WoO format (invert 4, take 2 to the dash) with two pretty big twists.  The big twists are that the invert is only applied to the cars in your heat (not the entire field), and the feature lineups are based on heat race finishing position (not qualifying time).  

An example of why the latter twist is good is D.J. Foos.  I think he had trouble in qualifying and didn't get a time in.  He was slated for group 3 (heat 3), so due to no time, started dead last (8th).  He raced up to 3rd, and made the show.  In a normal format, his lousy time (or lack thereof) would've started him last in the feature, or at least in 20th ahead of the B cars (if B cars don't get their time spots back) and any provisionals.  But he was rewarded for finishing well in his heat, and started 13th.  

An example of how the first twist (invert only applies to your heat) can go wrong was eloquently explained by Vande77.  Heat 1 at Attica had 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th quick.... while the quickest qualifier in heat 3 was Christopher Bell at 20th.

It's not a perfect format, but few are.

If certain tracks (I'll let you guess!) invert 6 and take 6 to the feature (with no dash or incentive other than points to pass cars), the heats truly are worthless... and you know it!  

Totally agree on hte invert 6 take 6 comment.

My suggestions to change that are invert 6 take 6, but only top 4 finishers are used for line-up from each heat, 5th and 6th place in heats line up behind the top 12 heat finishers.  Better yet, invert 8 and take 6

The end is imminent... we've reached common ground!  If they can't invert 8 and take 6, something (anything) has to be done to avoid the dreaded invert 6 and take 6.  

we better not make this a habit....

Having said that, when will the Knoxville Raceway get with the times and stop charging people more for using a debit or credit card when they buy tickets?  The old days of everyone carrying cash are long gone.

So dump the stupid mini stocks and dwarf cars, and run the sprint car program that you describe. I call that a win-win. 

There are charges that Knoxville has to pay when credit and debit cards are used. I see nothing wrong with passing that fee to the user.

Chilly, Vande, thanks for the clarification.  So this is similar to the Canadian Nationals, draw for your group/heat and you only qualify against other cars in your group.  I like that.  Less emphasis on qualying, but it still helps you get to start toward the front of your heat.

I do like the Winter Heat/Aussie/Sprint Bandits style formats.  Just not enough time to run 2 heats when you have 3 classes and 80+ cars most weeks at Knoxville.

Vande, I like your idea of invert 6 - take 6 - but only top four can make the invert.  Although we will have a large enough field this year in 410's at Knoxville to have 4 heats every night, invert 6, take 5.

Eric Arnold
Social Media Manager & Track Historian
Knoxville Raceway

Other businesses that also get charged fees, yet don't have them charging you seperately from your purchases for using it.

Restaurants, Wal-Mart, Target, HyVee, Casey's, etc., etc., etc. all accept credit/debit cards yet don't charge you a fee for them taking it. 

it's the cost of doing business that you may lose a % of your sales by taking a credit/debit card (every other business does it).  The question you've got to ask yourself is this.  I have a NEW CUSTOMER that walked up to the gate to buy a ticket that has never been here before.  The sign says tickets are $15 and when they buy the ticket with their credit/debit card, the reciept says $20. 

Do you think that customer is happy about that $5 fee?  I highly doubt they are happy.

Do you think that may sway them when they consider a return trip?  You bet, first impressions are EVERYTHING and chargin an additional fee is a good way to make a bad first impression (and they haven't even walked in the door yet).

I have been to many other entertainment venues and they all use the same model.  Tickets cost $XX, when you get your bill, it's for that amount, however it lists the $2 convenience fee and taxes prior to the total amount.  Do they charge the convenience fee?  Yep, but it's part of the advertised price, not tacked on during the purchase.

We live in 2015, not 1980, the % of people that even carry cash is probably under 20% for those age 40 and under (which should be the group that ALL RACETRACKS are targeting to put their butts in the seats.

Knoxville should just raise the ticket prices an extra dollar to everyone to cover for this, just like Hy Vee does?

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I love Knoxville, but the max credit card companies charge are about 2 percent per transaction. 5 bucks is way too much.

Correct.  A $5 service charge is just extra income per transaction.

I agree. Your first post never mentioned that they charge an extra $5. Charging an extra $.50 to $1.00 would be suffient.

Then pass on the 30 cent fee and don't take an additional $4.70 in profit on top.

I agree with you. Vande77 didn't mention the fee. Like I said above $.50 - $1.00 would be ok. Not everyone goes to Knoxville.