Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I don;t think it was a coincendence that it was mostly PA team that were affected by this rule and by this decision. Overall it was Dietrich, Ryan Smith, Macri, Dewease and then Skyler Gee. 

Now before anyone says I think they had it out for the Posse, they didn't. But I do think it's very likely that those who understand what the All Stars are doing and the interpretation of the rule are racing by these rules weekly. Thereofre I don't think it;s out of the question that the PA guys got bitten by something they likely are not faniliar with.

It was announced in the Drivers Meetin, but there was no mention of a DQ or really anything too specific about it. The problem is the guys were DQ'd for standing in places that fans were also standing in. The ossue at hand was that guys left this little box. Well the SPeedway had area down there they didn't want people in, which is why the box was where it was.

My understanding is Dewease's crew was heading up to the top of the tower n the infield to watch the race, which acoording to the rules, meant they left the box. They were not doing anythign malicously. Same with Dietrich;s crew and the same with Macri's crew. They were attempting to viewe from areas the common fan were standing at and guys were just moving around. And to my understanding the 'tip off' came form a member of the Rudeen team. Now That may be heresay. But once one guy got "caught", everyone was pointing fingers and saying, his guy went there, his guy was over there, etc. And it truly becanme a circus

But i was there and nobody came on the track. nobody adjusted any nequipment.Nobody was in harms way. People were mad when they announced the first 3 (DD, Smith, Macri), but then they came back a few minutes later and it was now also Dewease and Gee and half the grandstands walked out litteraly. Never seen anything like it before. It wasn;t fans mad about a specific driver, but more a "This has turned into a mess and we're now starting the race with only 18 cars and half the contenders didn't make a lap because of a stupid interpretation. 

Fans lost out, sponsors lost out, the track loost out, the all stars will lose out and overall it was a mess. Combine that with a lenghty delay to fix the catch fence after a 305 put a hole in it, long delays for accidents, a late night....people/drivers were and are pissed and I don;t think I blame them.

Don't bring up facts.....it makes people nervous. 

I went to see the Allstars at Lincoln, and was watching Baps last night on Speedshift.  I am so glad the Jim Nace Memorial race is not Allstar sanctioned this year like in years past.  I would be missing it for sure if it was. 

Total BS what they did last night. 

I guess the owner can punch someone in the pits and not get suspended either.  Yes, the heckler deserved it, but Tony should have ignored him and went on about his business.  Allstars should have suspended him for the rest of the year.  He is a loose cannon that needs to take a chillpill.  Not any reason to punch someone no matter how big of a jerk they are being.  And no I don't have anything against Tony.....he needs to use his brains more....just saying.

That was the last straw for me.  I agree with rules, but the one the Allstars had at Baps is total BS.  I might have just seen my last Allstar race live on Saturday Night.  I can't support a group that you can't breathe or you will be disqualified.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

I ask you all this if you are all so upset about the result-----what should have been done when the 3 crews left the designated area?  Since this has already been enforced this year, how can the All-Stars not enforce this?  If it were your series, and your rules, what would you have done if the rule had been broken?  And, once again to remind you before you answer, this rule was already enforced at least 1 time this year and the driver was DQ'd-----the leader of the race, and one of the most popular drivers in the country/world-----was DQ'd.  So, how should this have been handled?  

If anyone says "look the other way" don't bitch about jumped starts, passing before the cone, or any other rules infraction everyone seems to think no sanction has the balls to enforce anymore.  In other words, don't talk out both sides of your mouth!

Don't forget, this didn't turn into a shit-show because the All-Stars turned it into a shit show------it turned into a shit-show as a result of 3 crews not following directions.   So, I say, good for them for enforcing the rule regardless of the popularity.  

So parents-----a public service announcement for you:  Stop trying to fix all of your kids @#%-ups and let them learn from breaking the rules.  It turns them into adults that follow the rules and accept the consequences.

I agree with rules.  The one last night is TOTAL BS!   If they were to go on the track that is a different story. They were not....the Allstars ruined that show for a lot of people last night.   I really liked it when people left.  It looks like they lost a big fan base here in PA.  I hope they know we the fans are the people who pay there salary. 

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

I agree the rule is over the top.  However, you did not answer my question.  How would you, as the official that would make the decision, handle what happened last night?  (regardless of your feelings on the rule---because maybe the official thinks the rule is stupid too)

How would you have enforced/not enforced the rule?

I dont agree with some speed limits but if I speed and get a ticket for speeding, its on me.  Rules are rules.  

Bingo.  Seat belt and helmet rules as well.  Not anyone else's business if I wear either---------yet, get a ticket for not wearing them.  You can argue all you want about the stupid law, but you're still getting the ticket.  And, if you didn't know there was a helmet law in (insert state name here) guess what?  You still get a ticket.  Ingorance of the law is not an excuse to get you out of the ticket.

I would assume since Eliason's team was (allegedly) shouting out about the rule infraction (which I find to be a little 4th gradish) then it is apparently spelled out somewhere, correct?  If so, it is the responsibility of any team/driver entering an All-Star race to know and understand the rules. 

It's hard to consider this question because I have a brain so it's difficult to think of a hypothetical situation where I ever would have thought this was a good rule to begin with. However I certainly would have canned the rule after it ruined a race earlier this year after the Larson DQ so it would have been a moot point last night. It was bullshit when it happened to Larson, and it was bullshit x6 last night. I've never walked out on lap one of a 410 feature, and I hope I never do again but that was the only appropriate response to that shit show last night. 

Danny D. was hot enough to come across the track and yack with the guys on the flagstand and I don't blame him.  What if next year he and rest of the guys disqualified boycott the All-Stars, YIKES.  This would mean the fans would follow and a whole bunch of cancellations from promoters who would be worried about losing their shirts with a lot less fans and drivers.  Something to think about, isn't it?  This had better be addressed and very soon or there will be ramifications that nobody wants.....

Big props to the 07 Mr. McIntyre, for driving his @$$ off in the A-Main, the most deserved feature winner in some time methinks....

Yup----had better be addressed because the PENALTY for the rule is stupid.  I'm not so sure having a designated area for crew members is stupid, but I would like to hear the exact reasoning before deciding this.  At the very least, the penalty should be changed.  I thought it was extremely excessive when it happened to Larson.  But, that is not what has everyone pissed off.  It's the fact that they enforced it on their beloved PA drivers. 

So, back to the race in question.  What would you have done in THIS instance if you were an official?  I hear a whole bunch of people that think it was bullshit what they did..............so what should have been done?  Please someone just say "look the other way" so we can all laugh our asses off.  

Not only that, but the rule book also states will be subject to disqualification, fine, suspension, etc. It grinds my gears to see people that are saying that "Nothing was ever mentioned about a DQ." Do they ever mention being light will result in a DQ? Not in any pit meeting I have ever attended as a driver. It is always "Weight rule is 1500 lbs." or "LR Tire rule is D12 or H12 tonight." and thats it, That doesn't mean that "Well, if we put this RD12 on the LR tonight, I think we will be okay." No, some things should not need to be said. Similar to "The area between the cones is where your crew can stand all night long." To me, that is telling guys that is the crew area, do not leave. Personally, if someone told me that the "Area between the cones is where you can stand", I will not leave that area until I am told it is okay to leave said area. As a driver, it is my responsibility to pay attention to the pit meeting and inform my crew of anything and everything they will need to know. The driver is responsible for himself and everyone with him in the pit area.

I answered your question, and I expect most people would feel similar to me. I didn't like when it happened to Larson and if you look back in the Facebook groups I bitched about it then. This took it to an entirely new level of stupidity but it should have never happened because the rule should never have been created in the first place, and in the worst case scenario if it had been created it should have been scrapped after it robbed Larson of a win in front of a huge crowd of fans on a NASCAR weekend and made sprint car racing look like a joke. 

What people are not realizing is that the rules were enforced, and yes, they were enforced by to folks in Juliet towards Larson....but there is a reason they were enforced differently in these cases. Juliet couldn't allow people in certain spots due to an insurance thing. Therefore the series was requested to be less flexible with where folks could be. The rule was put into place only 2 months ago, with safety in mind, but it was really due to a certain track and it's insurance policy.

Last night was no different. BAPS had an area they did not want fans/spectators/crewmembers at. Which is why "The Box" was being looked at a little more. No to see if people left, but to keep people out of the area the speedway requested people not be in.

I think when it comes to rules and more, you need to look at intent. Usually rules are put into place to keep people from gaining ground or making changes that will affect outcome or safety. In this case, nothing done affected the outcome. Nothing done changed the course or safety. Nothing done really did anything whatsoever. Therefore I'm not sure why you DQ a team from a race for doing something extremely trivial.

I did hear that it came from the Rudeen team. And at the time Cory had significant damage as a result of the wreck that had occured. I'm sure they were itching to get out there and work on the car as they were now on the pole and fighting for a points championship. But they couldn't. So they see a few guys moving around and they are saying "I can't fix my car, but so and so's guys are not in this box with me" and Then the director has to make a decision. And said team that's penalized is going "Well if we were wrong, I saw Lance's guys going towards the Tower, so he's wrong too" And it spilled over into the pits after as well.

I understand what they were trying to do. But this rule needs changed and altered for better understanding and relevence. Because in this case, all it did was remove a bunch of good racecars and hurt the product on the track and the fans who came to watch a race.

I'm not throwing my opinion out there since 1. I wasn't there and 2. I'm not from there.  But I want to ask this question to all those going off the deep end here, and the question will help determine whether folks opinion on the matter is because of the All Stars, the rule, or if it's about those involved....

If the 3 disqualified drivers weren't Posse and were All Star regulars instead would we still have all the bantering and uproar today?

I ask this not to get bashed, but as an honest question. 

in this instance i think sending the offending cars to the rear for the restart would have been a suitable penalty, and per the rule it would have been allowable as the end of the rule in question states "or any other action deemed appropriate be All Star Officials."

I was not at BAPS last night.  But it sure sounds like a shit show.   In my opinion the common sense rule would be if a crew member leaves the box and enters the racing surface a DQ.  But anything else at worst should be the back of the field.

But I have a question for everyone,  and this question shows how backwards the ALL STARS are.

My question is Why can a driver get out of his car during a racing event and only get fined but not DQed for future races?  And don't say the All Stars could of DQed said driver because they did not and that they didn't is a whole other problem.   Getting out of the car became a rule that changed all of racing from Nascar to your local go kart track.  So according to the All Stars leaving a "box" area is worse than leaving your car and standing on the track during live action.

What say you fans?

I think no matter who it was if they were a car up front it would have been bullshit. I don't think there would have been a mass walkout had it been Reutzel, Blaney, or Eliason (or all three if we want a direct comparison) but I don't think people would have been happy, I know I wouldn't have been. I paid $22 to see a race between the All Stars and the Posse, not one or the other. I think the drama on the socials would have been the same no matter who got penalized. As a huge DD fan I wasn't super pissed until they announced Macri as well because then it started to get ridiculus, then when they announced LD and the rest I just left because at that point it's not even a race anymore. I feel sorry for the Snyders, and for G-Mac as they are victims along with the drivers who were DQed and the fans who were robbed of a good show. 

Well it was five. And one of them was an All Star. As a fan....I don;t think the location of said teams homes are the difference maker here. It;s about 5 really good cars and threats to win were all taken out of the race before a lap was completed. What if crewmember has to pee during the race? Do you DQ him because he walked over to the porta john? Like I said above, I don't think they were out to get the locals, and I;m a local. But I think it;s quite obvious the regulars are dealing with htis weekly for the last 2 months and get it. And the people who run with them every few months didn't. And as ai also stated above, there was a reason why in both instances teams were DQ'd here and Juliet and nowhere else....

That's what I said too. Hell...your casual DD haters were chearing when he got announced as the first DQ. Then Smith was added, then Macri was added. and then they are going back to green and suddenly Lance is added too, and then Skyler Gee too. It just became a joke. And fans walked out because they were like...really? It wasn't a speciaific driver or area that ticked people off. But you could tell once they had to wait to announce 2 more were DQ'd that obviously crewmembers were getting upset and diming each other out over trivial things. It just became a he said she said thing and fans were fed up. There was already a 30 minute delay earlier in the night due to the hole in the catchfence...people were agitated

Fair enough answer.  I won't argue that sending them to the rear seems more logical.  I don't know if it would have made anyone less upset, but it seems more reasonable.  I don't know the exact wording of the rule that was put in place, so I don't know if this was an option at that moment or if DQ was spelled out when the rule was amended.  

I, however, did know it was a rule and that Larson had been DQ'd for the same thing.  I know you all want to point to his crew member coming out on the track and to the car.  But it was very clear in the press release he wasn't DQ'd for going onto the racing surface.  He was DQ'd for leaving the designated area.  DQ'd for leaving the designated area.  Did I mention DQ'd for leaving the designated area?   Back in July.  Larson.  DQ.  At an All-Star race.  6 or 7 weeks ago.  Same infraction.  Same penalty.  DQ.  

Everyone sounds like a bunch of parents who are happy when someone else's kid gets punished for doing something wrong, but storms the principal's office when their kid is called out for doing something wrong.