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Topic: 100k to win SCWC returns to Mansfield with new date for 2019. Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 2 of 2   of  37 replies
Nick14
October 09, 2018 at 09:09:57 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 688
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I don't understand the line of thinking of some people. Whether it is sanctioned or not should not impact anyone's decision to attend. It doesn't lose any special meaning & the same person is promoting from last year. But just because the big bad evil empire sanctioning bodies sanction the event, it would lose meaning? Because Schatz might win? Because Sweet or another Outlaw would win? 

Last year Tim Shaffer won and though he is not an All Star he does run a fair amount of their schedule. Reutzel was second who was an All Star, and Kemenah 3rd All Star. All 3 not medicore and plenty capable of winning against the outlaws. Anyone that makes the a main of that event has a shot to win. Not just 1 or 2 just because they are Outlaws

 



blazer00
October 10, 2018 at 12:17:43 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2346
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Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on October 09 2018 at 09:09:57 PM

I don't understand the line of thinking of some people. Whether it is sanctioned or not should not impact anyone's decision to attend. It doesn't lose any special meaning & the same person is promoting from last year. But just because the big bad evil empire sanctioning bodies sanction the event, it would lose meaning? Because Schatz might win? Because Sweet or another Outlaw would win? 

Last year Tim Shaffer won and though he is not an All Star he does run a fair amount of their schedule. Reutzel was second who was an All Star, and Kemenah 3rd All Star. All 3 not medicore and plenty capable of winning against the outlaws. Anyone that makes the a main of that event has a shot to win. Not just 1 or 2 just because they are Outlaws

 



I think you should check the stats and add up the results regarding the biggest races over the years where the WoO are participating, and check out who is taking home the majority of the top ten money at those events. There are some exceptions, but not very damn many. The biggest exception is of course the events in PA, but this event isn't in PA.



PowerSlave
MyWebsite
October 10, 2018 at 06:56:13 AM
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 1087
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I think that many (if not all of you) that are discussing the size of the crowd are missing a huge factor that played into it. The absolute fiasco that occurred the year before with their big 410/305/non-wing show. I know for certain that they turned a lot of local fans off with that absolute disgrace.

 

Now, some of you might be thinking that this is going to be a "track bashing" post, but I honestly hope that the track succeeds. I attended my first race there in 1976 when i was a very young child. I have a lot of fond memories of the place, and it's practically right up the road from where I live. But, they're going to have to prove to me that they have their shit together before they regain my support. There's absolutely no excuse for what happened last year, and it won't be easily forgotten by many of the fans in this area.


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FORD97
October 10, 2018 at 09:24:55 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1269
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To each their own. It's a nice paying race, but it's not exactly a T-shirt race if the best of the best aren't there.

Can't expect to build prestige by trying to make a JV game a bowl game.


IBRACN: "page hits are page hits..."

91RI
October 10, 2018 at 09:51:22 AM
Joined: 03/01/2005
Posts: 192
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Posted By: FORD97 on October 10 2018 at 09:24:55 AM

To each their own. It's a nice paying race, but it's not exactly a T-shirt race if the best of the best aren't there.

Can't expect to build prestige by trying to make a JV game a bowl game.



It worked for the Trophy Cup.



SAF92
October 10, 2018 at 10:28:56 AM
Joined: 01/24/2018
Posts: 180
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If this event becomes ASCoC sanctioned it wouldn't affect the car count because most of the All Stars attended in 2018. I understand people like the idea of the "little guy" or a weekend warrior type team winning this race. But even without the WoO sanction... does it really make that big of a difference? You're still going to have guys like Shaffer, Reutzel, Madsen, Brown, Dietrich, Rico, Saldana, Kemenah, McMahan, Bayston, Scelzi all filling your top 10. So at the end of the day outlaw caliber teams are still taking home the money. The locals who are fast will still show up even with a WoO sanction, while the squirrels will stay home. Give me the 15 WoO teams, 20 less squirrels, and a $5 ticket increase. I want to see the best the in the world.



Murphy
October 10, 2018 at 11:41:46 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 1165
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     Dissenting opinion from most, I would guess, but does having it be a WoO race make for better racing, or just make it more of "an event"?



wolfie2985
October 10, 2018 at 12:03:37 PM
Joined: 07/29/2010
Posts: 368
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Posted By: Murphy on October 10 2018 at 11:41:46 AM

     Dissenting opinion from most, I would guess, but does having it be a WoO race make for better racing, or just make it more of "an event"?



I'm inclined to go with "event". But, then again, if one of the many good "local" Ohio, All Star, or PA cars ends up in Victory Lane at an Outlaw race, then that is better racing wink 



Nick14
October 10, 2018 at 02:41:35 PM
Joined: 06/04/2012
Posts: 688
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Posted By: blazer00 on October 10 2018 at 12:17:43 AM

I think you should check the stats and add up the results regarding the biggest races over the years where the WoO are participating, and check out who is taking home the majority of the top ten money at those events. There are some exceptions, but not very damn many. The biggest exception is of course the events in PA, but this event isn't in PA.



I would not argue your point about who is taking home the most money. My point is why does it matter 1 way or the other on if the event is sanctioned or not? Last year it was an unsanctioned event and minus however many Outlaws and a few other people throughout the country it was a great list of teams/drivers. Adding an All Star sanction does not really do anything but keep it the same as most of the All Star drivers were there anyway. Adding an Outlaw Sanction to me does amplify the competition level. Either way I would still go to the event knowing the caliber of drivers that would be in attendance. Deciding to go or not go because you like or do not like a sanctioning body is just asinine to me. A great race/event is a great race or event.

I am anti-establishment and pro-little guy as much as anyone but sometimes I think people go overboard with that line of thinking. As SAF92 said, at the end of the day an Outlaw Caliber team are still going to take home the money and the locals that are fast such as Cole Duncan, Travis Philo, Lee Jacobs, Cap Henry, etc will show up. You take the top dollar teams out of the equation, then just the next set of top dollar teams will win.

In the end, I highly doubt the event will be an Outlaw event as I believe they already have something lined up that weekend. If it is or is not, does not effect my decision. A great line up of drivers is a great line up of drivers. It doesn't have to be an Outlaw lineup but if it is, that does not make the event any less meaningful



SprintFan16
MyWebsite
October 10, 2018 at 03:33:05 PM
Joined: 05/03/2007
Posts: 1160
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Posted By: 91RI on October 10 2018 at 09:51:22 AM

It worked for the Trophy Cup.



No disrespect to the Trophy Cup, but I wouldn't say that it is perceived as a top tier or even second tier event. 

I'm sure you could go to a random crowd in Ohio or PA and ask fans at a sprint car race if they've heard of it, and I'd be surprised if you got a majority to respond Yes. 

If you asked the California or Washington crowd about the Silver Cup, or World Finals, or even something like the Doty I'd bet you'd have a much better positive response rate. 

I can think of a few shows that have top tier notoreity without WoO sanctioning - FRC, used to be STN but it's losing steam, and that might actually be it? I know there are big PA/CA shows but without WoO sanctioning they aren't going to be known nationwide.



SprintFan16
MyWebsite
October 10, 2018 at 03:34:13 PM
Joined: 05/03/2007
Posts: 1160
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Posted By: Murphy on October 10 2018 at 11:41:46 AM

     Dissenting opinion from most, I would guess, but does having it be a WoO race make for better racing, or just make it more of "an event"?



Hard to predict the effect on the racing, makes it more of an event but definitely sells more tickets. Is it enough to offset the sanction costs? I'm sure the promoter has ran those numbers.



laudarevsonhunt
October 10, 2018 at 04:35:31 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 1027
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Make it 50k to win for highest finishing Outlaw & non-Outlaw.



TheSprintFun
MyWebsite
October 11, 2018 at 07:18:45 AM
Joined: 02/02/2005
Posts: 118
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Posted By: laudarevsonhunt on October 10 2018 at 04:35:31 PM

Make it 50k to win for highest finishing Outlaw & non-Outlaw.



The crowd was awesome considering the weather we had to deal with. I think they'd get the same bump from have the Outlaws as having better weather. 

I could go either way with the Outlaws sanctioning it - I know I'll be there regardless. 



revjimk
October 11, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 4292
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I'd like to go either way, but prefer non Outlaw idea

Let the "little guys" win some $$$



x83fan
MyWebsite
October 11, 2018 at 03:11:14 PM
Joined: 01/15/2005
Posts: 98
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Posted By: SprintFan16 on October 10 2018 at 03:33:05 PM

No disrespect to the Trophy Cup, but I wouldn't say that it is perceived as a top tier or even second tier event. 

I'm sure you could go to a random crowd in Ohio or PA and ask fans at a sprint car race if they've heard of it, and I'd be surprised if you got a majority to respond Yes. 

If you asked the California or Washington crowd about the Silver Cup, or World Finals, or even something like the Doty I'd bet you'd have a much better positive response rate. 

I can think of a few shows that have top tier notoreity without WoO sanctioning - FRC, used to be STN but it's losing steam, and that might actually be it? I know there are big PA/CA shows but without WoO sanctioning they aren't going to be known nationwide.



SprintFan16 you make an interesting point, so my only question would be does fan perception dictate the tier level of an event, or is it the event itself, & the quality of teams it attracts, the money that it pays,length of the event, etc...in those aspects, Trophy Cup is, or has recently elevated itself to that upper tier, drawing such drivers as Shaffer, Haud, Reutzel, Crawley, Parker-Price Miller, Rico, Scelzi (x2) Macedo,McCarl, the list goes on, chasing that Sat. nite $25,000 payday. It also seems to me the track itself-Eldora, Grove, Charlotte- brings that recognition you speak of when asking west coasters about those events. Maybe if one of the traveling guns were to take the T-Cup back home, our notoriety would grow back east. Either way, good debatable topic, I'm looking forward to next weekend regardless of tier perception. Should be good



sprintcarfanatic
October 11, 2018 at 07:28:12 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 978
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You can see the best of the best at Eldora, Attica & a couple of other tracks in & around Ohio. They don't need thier name on every damn big race there is. Don't be a dick & schedule against it & tell your boys go take the money.

See it can work that way but I can damn near guarantee you they will schedule against it. So whats wrong with my way of thinking ? It's all you that are skewed. LOL.



SprintFan16
MyWebsite
October 11, 2018 at 07:38:57 PM
Joined: 05/03/2007
Posts: 1160
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Posted By: x83fan on October 11 2018 at 03:11:14 PM

SprintFan16 you make an interesting point, so my only question would be does fan perception dictate the tier level of an event, or is it the event itself, & the quality of teams it attracts, the money that it pays,length of the event, etc...in those aspects, Trophy Cup is, or has recently elevated itself to that upper tier, drawing such drivers as Shaffer, Haud, Reutzel, Crawley, Parker-Price Miller, Rico, Scelzi (x2) Macedo,McCarl, the list goes on, chasing that Sat. nite $25,000 payday. It also seems to me the track itself-Eldora, Grove, Charlotte- brings that recognition you speak of when asking west coasters about those events. Maybe if one of the traveling guns were to take the T-Cup back home, our notoriety would grow back east. Either way, good debatable topic, I'm looking forward to next weekend regardless of tier perception. Should be good



I was specifically replying to the prestige that another poster had brought up. I'm sure Trophy Cup is an excellent event, and I'm not trying to downplay it, but I can't agree it's a top tier event. 

The list of drivers you posted is impressive, but they aren't the marquee names one would expect when thinking top tier event. Not saying they're not great - if anything, that kind of reads like a list of underrated talent that doesn't get their due. 

And to the track point - I specifically pointed out Lernerville given I don't believe it to be a place considered to be elite in the sprint car world. Another one would be Pevely with the Iron Man, or Volusia with the Winter Nationals - those are well known events, going to be known coast to coast despite not being what I would consider an elite sprint car track. And I know Lernerville has dropped in prestige from where it once was, and Volusia might be a bit of a stretch. Jackson Nationals will be there soon as well.

I'd reserve the list of tracks supplying a ton of recognition to a few places like Knoxville, Eldora, William's Grove. Honestly, I'm not sure if the list even goes outside of that. The Brad Doty Classic moved back to Attica this year and has been held there at Limaland, and I'd put it above the Trophy Cup in prestige. 

Please don't take this as me saying the Trophy Cup isn't a fantastic event - format sounds absolutely awesome to me and I have to imagine the Saturday A is excellent given the points invert. I just don't consider it be an upper tier event, and of course, that's just my opinion!



x83fan
MyWebsite
October 11, 2018 at 07:58:07 PM
Joined: 01/15/2005
Posts: 98
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Hey SprintFan16 no offense taken at all my friend. We're all in this for the same thing, great racing with stacked fields, good weather, well prepared tracks, all that stuff. not too much to ask for, right. have fun at your next race, wherever that may be





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