Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I never said that Selinsgrove speedweek was a good race.  I said it was wet at the beginning of the night....and that makes for a good feature and it was a good feature....I watched the highlights and it was ok but not as good as the Ray Tilley classic.  The track dried out too quickly that night.  Selinsgrove didn't have a cushion either that is why it wasn't as good as it could have been.  I was excited when I saw the warmup times but after that I knew it wasn't good when I saw  the times in the feature.   I think, if I remember right there were 9 or 10 cars were faster in time trials than the night before in that speedweek show.  

Williamsgrove left the cushion alone they didn't run it in every chance they had. Very fast track for a clip at the beginning of the night.  They left the drivers pound it and not slip and slide all over the place.  The drivers take care of the cushion....the way it should be at every track.

Some tracks start out slow and get even slower during the night with no cushion......very boring in my book.....just saying!

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

While the quality isn’t central PA quality, the quantity in western pa/Ohio has been great this year. I know lernerville has averaged 25ish cars a night. Sharon has drawn 43, 48, 41 for their all star shows and 31 and 28 for regular shows, Mercer just had 48 for the summer nationals.

It isn't just racing that one could ask what has happened.  Membership numbers are dwindling in fraternal and charitable organizations, etc.  It's life in general; a sign of the times.  Major sponsors are virtually impossible to secure and the often flamboyant deep-pocketed owners, who injected life into the sport and gave it character, are a dying breed; few and far between.  Things have changed; peoples' priorities have changed; the dollar doesn't get you near as much as what it did in the 70s or 80s; life in general and the world we live in has changed.  Multiple members of many households are working 2, 3, even 4 jobs just to make ends meet.  I'll stop now as I'm starting to depress myself!

Attempting to be a voice of reason in a world full of
irrationality. 

I think this is echoing your sentiment here, but I think if you look at the ratio of cost increase to purse increase that explains it as well. 

We been having this debate for 20 years...the sky is falling..car counts are down...sprint car racing is dying etc etc etc.  There is a ton of racing in central pa.  Car counts always decline every year at this time due to speedweek, attrition etc.  Is the cost of racing high, yes.  Is it too high probably.  Is there anything we can do about it...who knows, doubtful. 

The nine scariest words in the english language 
are ,"i'm from the government and i'm here to help" - 
Ronald Reagan

Has Baps ever had a full field for their Sunday shows? Hodnett wasn’t at Don Martin last year to go along with a lot of other races they “skipped” over the past year or two.

I usually agree with you, but the counts are starting to concern me. 

Benefit of geography? Can draw cars from Ohio and western Pa. 

The first reply got it right:  dollars, not sure if he was talking about purse or the ever increasing cost of chassis and motors, etc.  I mean carbon fiber drive shafts for sprint cars!  Wasn't Titanium light enuf?    Yeah, that will let me put another 15 pounds of lead on the left side frame rail and only cost me a thousand dollars?  Crazy.  My friend races in Fergus Falls and Fargo with his mod which has the 602 spec engine, not sure the name of the division but think he said it was less than four grand total, ready to race and won't have to take it in to one of the shops that can work on it all year long.  He doubts anything will have to be done to it before next season.  

Maybe smaller tires, hope not smaller wings, I hate those tiny wings I used to see decades ago.  Maybe the wicker size?  

Lawlessness + liberalism = HELL -  NYC, Detroit, Chicago, 
Seattle, LA  Who the H runs those cities. 

Only 23 cars at the Allstar race last night?? Unusual, Allstars typically draw large car counts!

Agree with that completely. From both a fan and a team standpoint, there are not nearly as many people going racing 50,60,70 nights a year as there was a generation ago. The big shows do as well as they ever have, but weekly shows seem to be dying at a lot of places in terms of both car count and fan count.

Ohio's car counts do perfectly fine most nights. 4 nights all year with less than a full field of the standard 20 cars here and all of them were in Southern Ohio. You can see several dates where there are 90+ sprints competing at 4 tracks (usually Fremont, Wayne Co, Sharon, and Atomic) on the same day.

There may be less strictly car owners, but there is plenty of driver/owners who still race weekly across the state. Less 1/2 miles means guys can run a -12 and still be competitive at some shows. Hell, Brian Smith ran a -12 built in 1997 at the WoO race in Michigan this year and missed the transfer by one spot out of the B main.

From the viewpoint of a person who has attended racing since the 1950’s ( and been quite financially  involved since the 1980’s ) my take on it is the increasing disparity between the best cars and the rest of the cars.  Cars who are fairly competitive at a regular, weekly race, are less inclined to support a sanctioned show because they know they may either : Not make the Main, or make the Main but run out back , thus making less than they might make at a weekly race.  And, even aside from the money, there is the satisfaction factor.  A driver who normally runs in the top 10 doesn’t want to run 20-24, or worse, be a non transfer in the B.  I don’t believe track conditions or other issues are a factor.  It is the aforementioned, plus the ever increasing cost of fielding a team.

I think what some people are missing is the ‘invader‘ factor for some of the big shows that impact car counts. I did some quick checking on the breakdown of car counts at the last couple of outlaw shows.

At the Doty Classic there were 50 cars; 13 outlaws, 5 all stars, 12 invaders, and 20 locals.

Kings Royal there were 51 cars; 13 outlaws, 7 all stars, 22 invaders, and 10 locals.

Don Martin Memorial 36 cars; 13 outlaws, 5 all stars, 8 invaders, and 10 locals.

Gettysburg Clash had 34 cars and 31 at the Summer Nationals. There were 0 all stars and 0 invaders at either of the central Pa outlaw shows. If 5 all stars and 8 invaders show up, the car counts jump to 47 and 44 respectively. So perhaps the car counts for outlaw shows in posse land are not that far apart from Ohio. Thinking more and more geography has a lot to do with it.

I have no problem with 34 top notch cars. Who wants to watch 60 cars time trial? About 30 of them have no chance and makes for long night.

Bingo

-

Again, a lame PA perspective, but look how many prominent 410 owners PA has lost in the last few years...

-Don Owens

-Jesse Keen

-Charlie Sorokach

-Dave Middleswarth

-Pete Postupack

-J&S Kline

-The Allabachs

-Joe Darrah

-Floyd Swope

-The #30 Leach Team

And then the ones who took their chances on the road...

-Bobby Allen

-Rob Warkoczewski

-Jeff Marks

-CJB / Chad Clemens

What about the Apple car, was it Bob Stewart?  How about the 77 car?  How about the 461 car, or had Walt Passed?  They were three of the biggies back in the day and I'm sure I missed a few.....

Nice work on the numbers. Puts some context to the discussion.

Side note: Uh, since when has 20 cars been called a full field? Is that seriously an Ohio/other areas thing? Jumping up to 24 puts it at 15 races which is a significant increase. Also having 2 races paying 50k+ skews it a bit too. Not a knock against them or anything. Just something else to keep in mind. PA numbers will look different after The National Open and Tusca. 50.

Car count not an issue at Jackson Motorplex. That track had 47 360s last Friday in mid July. If the pay is good and guys like racing at a track CARS WILL BE AT THE TRACK........

The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan