Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The change needs to be in the point drop. A 1 pt. drop for qualifying would make a difference. For a 50 car field it's currently a 100 point difference between quick time and slowest car. Change it to 1 pt and it's only 50 pts.

Not really saying that it needs to be changed, but that's were I'd make the change.

Someone posted a list of Donny's pill draws that last 10 years and he was towards the front almost every year.  Not only does he drive the place better than anyone but he hasn't been to shabby at pill draw either.    

Droping total points no, but difference between spots yes. Simple demonstration:

Driver A under current format goes perfect 500 pts (200/100/200 pts).

Driver B times 2nd (198 pts), wins heat (100 pts) and finishes 2nd (198 pts) for 496 pts, 4 points back.

Change the point drop for qualifying to a single point per spot Driver A still has 500, but Driver B is 497 (199/100/198), now only 3 points back.

I'd also change the heats to a 2 point drop.

A more extreme example, Driver A still perfect at 500 (200/100/200) with current points. Driver B times 25th (150 pts), wins heat (100 pts) and 2nd (198 pts) in the main for 448 total and 52 points difference. Change that to a 1 point gap per spot in time trails, and now Driver A still 500,  Driver B 473 (175/100/198) for only a difference of 27 points.

Sorry for the post string, but post Nationals Monday blues got me thinking.

I'd say even better than droping time trails spread to 1 and heats to 2, is then bump up the mains to 3.

Using the above example, Driver A still 500, but Driver B would drop to 472 for a difference of 28 points.

Again, I apologize. I'll stop having fun with math now.

Snappy come back. It's called discussion. I originally even said that I don't necessarily think it needs to be changed, but offered a way that would make a difference. You said it wouldn't and I proved that it would. Guess you don't like being wrong. Best of luck getting over it.

adjusting the points per position in TT, heat and prelim feature will acccomplish nothing,  If you're 27th fast, you're still 27th fast.  If you can't pass cars or go backwards in your heat and feature guys still finish ahead of you and outpoint you.

The points order is going to remain the same. 1st is 1st and 25th is 25th. Results will still be results and remain the same. Doesn't matter what the damn spread is!

Night 1 Kerry Madsen scored 487 pts at this years Nationals (200/97/190) and Kyle Larson 469 pts (172/97/200) for a difference of 18. Using a point drop of 1 for TT, 2 for heats and 3 for the main, Madsen would have 483 pts (200/98/185) and Larson 484 (186/98/200) for a difference of 1 point and Larson moving ahead of Madsen.

10 people can tell me I'm wrong, but if they're all wrong, I'm still right. I know, I know, "Go rent your own track".

To make your point you are changing the point tally on all three> How clever of you! Change the points on the TT by 1, fine..... but leave the heats declining at 3pts like they are.....and the Feature declining at 2pts like it is. Now what do you have? All you did was reduce the most obvious points total to give Larson the edge. The only way you're right is by manipulating all three points catagories. Maybe not so clever after all! But nice try!

I changed all 3 because like I said, I thought about it more. It de-emphasises TT and heats and place greater value on the main. I'm also not calling for change, just showing a way that would make a difference. Even just changing TT to a single point drop only would bring Larson 9 pts closer to Madsen. Single point drop for TT only isn't going to be huge, probably one or two position swaps (Larson would jump ahead of Hodnett and Brown ahead of Madsen) at best, but mathematically it could be the difference of being locked in or not. Going 1/2/3 drop through the night might make a bigger difference though. With this year's point, there would be no change in who locked into the A, but in the B, Zomer and Wolfe would drop out with Balog and Bayston locking in. What did change was starting positions. Only Schatz, Gravel and Austin Mc Calrl stayed the same. Brown moved up to the inside of the second row and Larson jumped up to the third row, with Madsen dropping to the fourth row. 

Well like the majority are saying.....leave it a lone. it can be manipulated many different ways. As it is.....like I stated earlier.....the cream still rises to the top and are forced to race hard at all aspects of building points.

Let   me    talk   real   slow   for   you Ford97. I'm not really calling for change. I'm taking part in what is a discussion about  are TT points to high for the Nationals. People suggested lowering the point possible, but that wouldn't make a change as was pointed out. I mearly showed that to make a difference that you have to change the gap in points per position and have mathmatically shown that it does change things, be it just making it 1 pt per spot in TT (again, just that one change starts Larson one row closer to the front this year) or tweaking each event.

This is a forum about sprint car racing. We have fun talking about what happened, what could've happened and what can make it better. Again, we do it for fun, Knoxville should be doing seriously. Not because of some great injustice, but because they are the biggest race and they should strive to be the best. Look at other post in the forum right now and it'll show why it's important. One shows that Knoxville does look at what it can do to make things better, ie going to 50 laps. Another dicusses how a great event like the Gold Cup has declined. Change is ok and sometimes need and if not needed then leave it alone, but always evaluate it.

Now you'll forgive me, I've got to go. You've inspired me, so I'm moving out of my mom's basement here in Podunk, Va. (where I watched the Nationals on PPV) and moving to Brandon, SD. I hear that I can buy a track for a steal at 10 mil so I can show Knoxville how it's done. I swear, if I hear about the Knoxville Nationals one more time I'll puke.

Again, if you deemphasize time trials, you're going to have cars sandbag time trials, just like you do at the Royal. 

I know you're not advocating it, but why should Larson get more points than Madsen, he was given the advantage of the invert of the top 8 for the prelim A main. If you do something like this, youd have to get rid of the 8 car invert.

Serious question, can you really sandbag? I've taken a few vehicle to thier top speed and have "raced" some friends, but never have I raced the clock. The difference between 1st and 42nd in time on night one was <1 sec. If Madsen had wanted to sandbag into a 2nd row starting spot in the heat he'd have to drop 1/2 a second off. Plus, it's totally effected by when you go out and what times you have to beat (or not beat). Any actual drivers here have any input?