Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I'm referring to the 50's and 60's.  I am older than Steve, Sammy and Doug so I don't think of them as being old.

I understood that....I didn't separate it out quite properly. But when anyone refers to the "toughness" of sprint car drivers, it  really describes the 50's and 60's and earlier. My Point of Sammy and others being able to race with todays drivers covers my generation. There were drivers earlier than the Big 3 that could have raced with those guys, too. The best sprint car drivers of the 50's and 60's didn't transition into the era of the 70's, because they had left the dirt for the most part and went to the then modern day Indy cars and pavement. When I alluded to all eras I was stating just that. I think with each generation as the cars got faster, in many ways they became easier (not easy) to drive than the car of the generation before. So I think speed in some ways is overrated when considering each generation of drivers and the skills they posessed. Would AJ Foyt in his prime been able to adapt and run with the guys today? I have no doubt that he could have. Would today's drivers be able to manhandle and run the hell out of the cars from the past? Only if they hadn't had the luxury of today's car, if you understand my meaning. I think the cars from the 50's and 60's would scare the hell out of most (not all) of todays drivers. (I'll catch it for that one)

I understood that....I didn't separate it out quite properly. But when anyone refers to the "toughness" of sprint car drivers, it  really describes the 50's and 60's and earlier. My Point of Sammy and others being able to race with todays drivers covers my generation. There were drivers earlier than the Big 3 that could have raced with those guys, too. The best sprint car drivers of the 50's and 60's didn't transition into the era of the 70's, because they had left the dirt for the most part and went to the then modern day Indy cars and pavement. When I alluded to all eras I was stating just that. I think with each generation as the cars got faster, in many ways they became easier (not easy) to drive than the car of the generation before. So I think speed in some ways is overrated when considering each generation of drivers and the skills they posessed. Would AJ Foyt in his prime been able to adapt and run with the guys today? I have no doubt that he could have. Would today's drivers be able to manhandle and run the hell out of the cars from the past? Only if they hadn't had the luxury of today's car, if you understand my meaning. I think the cars from the 50's and 60's would scare the hell out of most (not all) of todays drivers. (I'll catch it for that one)

So if AJ Foyt would be able to adjust to today's cars, why couldn't guys from today be able to adjust to 50's and 60's style cars if they had to? (Key words being "had to").

It probably would scare them for the first time or two or three they would hop in them, but I'd bet they would figure it out. It's not that their fault they born 30-50 years after these guys. They were born into this era of technology, nothing they can do to fix that. 

I didn't say none could. But I think it prooves out that it's a plus to inherit technology. And that it is easier to evolve with technology and go forward, and it's more difficult to lose technology and not go backwards.  In every era there are those that could have raced and won in any other era. I think we agree with that.

I think so too on Jimmie Johnson.   Not a big Johnson fan, but I kind of hope he wins #8 just to hear the whining from the Earnhardt fans.   

I don't think eight titles in the current era is better than seven titles in previous eras because NASCAR has effed up their points format so badly that the current system allows a driver to fluke his way to the championship (or even miss 30 percent of the races and still win the championship). The guy that got shafted out of challenging Petty/Earnhardt for championships is Jeff Gordon. He had a great shot at several more championships if the  points system was not such a joke in this era.

Just watching Winged Nation on MavTV and hearing their interview today with Brad Doty.   He was asked his opinion on the combination of Donny and Ricky and their domination of our favorite sport.   Many folks on this board don't seem to think Donny is as good as the "big three" of an earlier generation.    What about the opinion of someone who raced against the Big Three?    Doty basically said that he considers the Schatz and Warner combination even better than Karl and Steve.    I think the point he made is valid.    He said that Karl and Steve had everyone beat on equipment and horsepower, where the cars now are very equally matched.    He thinks the equality of the modern cars makes what Donny and Ricky are doing even more special than what the Kinsers did.

I've been around a long time, although I've never driven a car or turned a wrench on one.    What Doty says makes a lot of sense to me.    I was thinking this was for the past few years anyway and I'm sure there are others.   What does everyone else think?   Please, just a pleasant discussion here and let's not let this degrade into something else!   

Good post Willie.  I agree.

Two points from me:

1.  Brad Doty is correct.  The competition level is greater and he is still beating everyone on a regular basis.

Which leads me to the overlooked job the WOO has done:

2.  The World of Outlaws and sprint car racing in general has done their job of keeping the parody in sprint car racing.  Most of us seem to agree that Schatz is at least equally as impressive as Kinser.  And yet, he does not dominate the sport like Kinser did---leaving about 2/3 of the races to be won by other drivers.  As much as everyone seems to think we have a one man show going on in the WOO, it is quite the opposite.  The one man show happened 2 or 3 decades ago.  When I attend a WOO race, I feel like there is a legit chance for 15-20 other cars to win the race.  Did we feel that way in the late 80's and early 90's?  No. 

So, Donny's career as a whole may end up being more impressive than the King's-----without him stealing all of the wins. 

Good post Willie.  I agree.

Two points from me:

1.  Brad Doty is correct.  The competition level is greater and he is still beating everyone on a regular basis.

Which leads me to the overlooked job the WOO has done:

2.  The World of Outlaws and sprint car racing in general has done their job of keeping the parody in sprint car racing.  Most of us seem to agree that Schatz is at least equally as impressive as Kinser.  And yet, he does not dominate the sport like Kinser did---leaving about 2/3 of the races to be won by other drivers.  As much as everyone seems to think we have a one man show going on in the WOO, it is quite the opposite.  The one man show happened 2 or 3 decades ago.  When I attend a WOO race, I feel like there is a legit chance for 15-20 other cars to win the race.  Did we feel that way in the late 80's and early 90's?  No. 

So, Donny's career as a whole may end up being more impressive than the King's-----without him stealing all of the wins. 

Interesting you saying most of us seem to agree!!!!! Damn man your gonna say most of us on 20 something replies to this post versus the whole sprint car world from coast to coast. Rethink your post and get thousands upon thousands to respond not 20 something people then throw out that sentence as if it were a fact. This would be premature on your part now wouldn't it, if you even come back at me with a response then you will be even dumber then your post so spare yourself or go get thousands like I said To back up your most of us statement.

Lighten up DL, not sure who took a dump in your wheaties.   He's got an opinion, I do too.  You obviously don't agree and I'm fine with that.   

I just didn't like him saying most of us when there is 20 something responses...... look man there isn't enough people on this damn forum to fill up the grandstands at let's say Eldora so my point is what the hell about the thousand other tracks that have sprint car fans that fill them up from coast to coast and he came off as speaking for most of them and it rubbed me the wrong way. Brad Doty can say what he wants but keep in mind that the comparison he did with kinser is the same Kinser that beat his ass daily, Besides the obvious of what I said your missing my point and don't agree and I'm fine with that but can we agree that we need a tad bit more DATA to back that most of us statement??? Thanks and have good day

"Most of us" is somewhat ambiguous to begin with.  I'm pretty sure he didn't intend to say his opinion represented the views of sprint car fans all across the country.   He likely meant folks who are responding to the thread or even those of us who are Schatz fans.   Either way "most of us" still wouldn't mean "all of us".

With regard to Doty, that's the only reason why I started this thread.   The "Donny vs Steve, Sammy, & Doug" thing has already been discussed many times.   However, this is the first time I've heard of a driver who competed against those guys making a comment to that effect.   And you are entirely correct that Doty finished behind the big three at a ton of races.   However, there were also nights he finished ahead of them too.    Because of that, I consider his opinion very significant.   

(Before we go any farther, I'm not a Schatz fan)

Thanks for clarifying that for me Willie.  When I said "most of us" I was referring to the responders of THIS thread--and referring to the folks that already responded.  CHILL OUT DIRTLOVER!!   Thanks for taking shots at my intelligence before understanding the context of my reply.

 Not speaking for all sprint car fans across the country.  I believe that what Schatz has done at least puts him in conversation with Kinser---and he has a lot of time left and is still in his prime with no signs of backing down.  (And by the way, Kinser is my favorite driver of all time--both for his abilities and the way he carried himself at the track with other drivers and fans)  

WOO racing IS full of more parody than it was 20 years ago--no one can deny that.  The cars are more equal--not my words, words of many of the great sprint car experts across the country.  Yet Schatz has still found a way to be dominant--even as the WOO has pushed for more parody.  

blazer00---As far as the "15 cars can win on any given night", I made that statement before I even looked at a recent season's win total.  So here are the facts from last year:

1. 16 different winners

2.  # of Cars and/or drivers that didn't win last year but are capable of winning a WOO race and have won WOO races in the past?  McMahon, Swindell, Kraig Kinser, Brown, Shaffer, Lasoski...............does anyone want me to keep going?   I don't think my number was high.  

11 full time drivers won as well as drivers like Billy Balog.  How did I f#$k that up?  

I don't want to argue I'm just tired of hearing about Schatz I really am

Jordan was the best and now idiots say Lebrick is but he has lost too much to be the best IMO

Petty was the best then Dale sr which there is no way

AJ was the best now it's Tony.... Whatever 

prisoner of the moment Brad Doty not you egras

okay cars are equal now but talent is not okay

Schatz don't have a Sammy or wolf to contend with to match his talent like kinser did but just go back and watch Steve and Sammy when woo started they won and destroyed and then watch Schatz and he didn't do shit till the talent ran out and then he dominated all because what......????? It's because he can race in traffic light years ahead of the rest IMO,Schatz is real good but a Steve Kinser he will never be. Donny can only drive one type of race car and be good and idiots being prisoners of the moment think he is the best ever when what he has is a weak ass talent pool around him..... why can't any driver today match him in wins in a season and contend with him nightly and have that rivalry I want and instead it's 1 off dudleys here and there winning woo races and then some regulars getting some here and there but never ever do the regulars really seriously ever mount a serious threat to Schatz but damn it Steve had it on 95% of his nights from Sammy and Doug. I watched a lot of races when Steve and Sammy along with Blaney and mark were the guys and schatz was in b-mains and running 15th just like the 2002 video game on Ps2 where the game always has Schatz running 15th for a reason, (cause that's what his stats were), so around talent Schatz was nothing more then a feature filler for the 24 four abreast parade lap and now that he is the best...cough cough he is king but damn it,he isn't beating anybody IMO but second grade talented winged sprint car drivers, I won't say anything again cause it don't matter anyway cause it's a bunch of cars racing in a circle on a dirt track and statistics show 99% of the world don't care and don't even know what a damn sprint car is I mean damn this will speak volumes on who really gives a shit, Woo has 82,000 people who follow them on twitter and that's pathetic and a sign that there are not enough people giving a shit about Donny Schatz and little cars racing in a circle in front of little crowds that are getting thinner for a reason and I'm gonna lean towards TALENT 

Long live the king Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell who gave everyone the best years that Sprints will ever see and the hell with this win off the front row unless your Schatz who can pass bullshit product they call Woo

modifieds at Bloomington put on a better show and when the woo went there the modifieds were up first and were the premier attraction and that's sad

last thing Brad Doty is not a pimple on Steve Kinser ass and should never try to even entertain the shit he did 

Damn prisoner of the moment Brad Doty hip hip and I'm gonna skip skip out of this thread for good cause it's pointless