Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I just came across this thread, so I apologize for being late to the party. I didn't plan on posting, but I see I've been mentioned a few times and I almost feel obligated. First off, I don't believe I know who Cubic is, nor do I keep track of everything he says on here. On this topic of increasing car count though, I have to agree with him. The SOD tire rule would definitely create an environment that would be beneficial to car owners as it pertains to engine costs. Which, I believe is the biggest factor in the dwindling car count. That's the whole reason the other divisions started in the first place, right?. To lower engine costs. I don't believe $15,000 for a top 305 and $40,000 for a 360 make sense as a cost saver anymore. They are just different classes where many times the bigger engines wins. If you want to win, you basically have to have an engine builder build you a killer. Car setup and driver skill matters less and less. Before I get flamed for just being a keyboard cowboy, I do have a fair amount of experience. I'm not a household name like Donny, but I have raced Sprints for over 25 years and have run a season  with the all stars, won a couple races at Attica over guys like Shaffer and Kemenah and won last years SOD championship. Most of the  races I've won have been on dry slick race tracks where the speed is slower. Which makes sense, since I still use a -12 motor that Davey Brown originally built in 1997. I'm able to freshen it each year for less than $6000 and I get 25-30 races out of it. That, by the way, keeps the 410 car count up because I'm just a working man who can afford to keep racing. I think many of the 305/360 guys would switch to 410's if they could compete for wins at  a much lower cost, and a smart tire rule would do that. 

 I don't believe that good racing comes from strictly from the highest speeds. As a matter of fact, I believe the best races happen on slicker slower tracks where guys have time to come from the back and pass cars. Don't get me wrong, I get it, the Outlaw type speed and power is impressive, but I'd much rather watch guys trade slide jobs at 20mph slower than a 140 mph locked down freight train. Most people wouldn't care about a 2 second a lap speed difference if the racing was excellent. 

As for why SOD hasn't greatly increased car counts, last year was the first year of the rule. The fact that they didn't lose car count after a major rule change in Michigan is quite positive. This year, I believe the count may improve. Time will tell. They have a decent pay structure and a better than average contingency program. 

Bottom line, racers are their own worst enemy. We always spend as much as we can and look out for ourselves without regard for the fans. In order to keep from eating ourselves alive, we need to cut engine costs and a SOD type tire rule is a great option. 

P.s.

I loved the last Goodyear tires. They lasted forever and good used ones were always readily available.

Thanks much for your insight brian.  I'm surprised this board didn't crash after a such reasonable, honest post

A 1997 Davey Brown -12 motor  - that's just music to my ears. 

I don't wear the T shirts anymore but I'd buy yours. Thank you for making it work!

You clowns seem to forget fans just want to see the best drivers. Right now they are spread throughout a bunch of limited, mini, micro and outlaw kart ranks because of the cost. There are a lot of Donny Schatz's lost throughout there that their Dad's don't own half of ND. The rich kid age has been upon us for a long time in the 410s. It used to not be that way. Karl Kinser could make ends meet for a long time on winnings alone. When that ended so did blue collar sprint car racing. Now you have corporate sprint car racing instead. You cannot tell the difference with the unlimited engine SOD on the 13". If all the best drivers were in them fans would be out in droves. It is also a lot easier to make cheap unlimited horsepower for the big half miles. 950 hp out of a 410 is like wiping your ass with hundred dollar bills. Common sense is a terrible thing to waste, but tens of thousands are even worse.

You clowns seem to forget fans just want to see the best drivers. Right now they are spread throughout a bunch of limited, mini, micro and outlaw kart ranks because of the cost. There are a lot of Donny Schatz's lost throughout there that their Dad's don't own half of ND. The rich kid age has been upon us for a long time in the 410s. It used to not be that way. Karl Kinser could make ends meet for a long time on winnings alone. When that ended so did blue collar sprint car racing. Now you have corporate sprint car racing instead. You cannot tell the difference with the unlimited engine SOD on the 13". If all the best drivers were in them fans would be out in droves. It is also a lot easier to make cheap unlimited horsepower for the big half miles. 950 hp out of a 410 is like wiping your ass with hundred dollar bills. Common sense is a terrible thing to waste, but tens of thousands are even worse.

 "There are a lot of Donny Schatz's lost throughout there that their Dad's don't own half of ND."

You seem to be implying that Schatz's wins are because of $$$..... absurd, money can't buy skill & he consistently beats other well funded teams

It's absurd to think that skill and experience costing $100,000-$200,000 a year might not be stopping the next low buck guy like Wolfgang or maybe even Kinser from getting a shot. Unlimited with less tire takes MORE SKILL and less money.

You clowns seem to forget fans just want to see the best drivers. Right now they are spread throughout a bunch of limited, mini, micro and outlaw kart ranks because of the cost. There are a lot of Donny Schatz's lost throughout there that their Dad's don't own half of ND. The rich kid age has been upon us for a long time in the 410s. It used to not be that way. Karl Kinser could make ends meet for a long time on winnings alone. When that ended so did blue collar sprint car racing. Now you have corporate sprint car racing instead. You cannot tell the difference with the unlimited engine SOD on the 13". If all the best drivers were in them fans would be out in droves. It is also a lot easier to make cheap unlimited horsepower for the big half miles. 950 hp out of a 410 is like wiping your ass with hundred dollar bills. Common sense is a terrible thing to waste, but tens of thousands are even worse.

It's not 410's vs 305's. That's not a valid analagy. The discussion is about todays 410's vs. 410's(or a LARGER CI sprint) with a more sensible rules package which would unhook the cars a little and save the teams a lot of money in tire and engine bills. Yes it would slow them down a tad but not like a 305. Do you leave before the feature because feature lap times are usually a couple seconds slower per lap than hot laps and heat races? That's when the best racing usually occurs, when you actually have to drive the car. Since you mention Port Royal, they had the biggest crowd of the year last night ($3200 50/50)for a late model show. Late models are easily 2-3 seconds slower than a 410 sprint but fans still come out to see the best drivers and the best racing. Might as well just get rid of bullrings altogether because they don't hit 140 mph. That can't be any good. 

It's not 410's vs 305's. That's not a valid analagy. The discussion is about todays 410's vs. 410's(or a LARGER CI sprint) with a more sensible rules package which would unhook the cars a little and save the teams a lot of money in tire and engine bills. Yes it would slow them down a tad but not like a 305. Do you leave before the feature because feature lap times are usually a couple seconds slower per lap than hot laps and heat races? That's when the best racing usually occurs, when you actually have to drive the car. Since you mention Port Royal, they had the biggest crowd of the year last night ($3200 50/50)for a late model show. Late models are easily 2-3 seconds slower than a 410 sprint but fans still come out to see the best drivers and the best racing. Might as well just get rid of bullrings altogether because they don't hit 140 mph. That can't be any good.