Forum: SCRAFAN.COM Forum (go)
Moderators: ljennings

No one has mentioned the power of television.  I remember the days of Thursday Night Thunder midgets at Ventura presented by ESPN.  Those drivers were in the homes of every race fan and non-race fan and really made names for themselves.  Lucas Oil and MAVTV have been presenting sprint car racing on TV, albeit not the best video quality and many reruns, but at least midwest sprints are getting some exposure.  The WoO have been on the CBS cable sports network.  If we could get Lucas Oil Family/MAVTV to incorporate some non-wing shows from California, it could help the problem.  Number one problem is the economy.  No matter what Obama or your other entities tell you, the economy is bad.  But being the enterprising nation we are, many people are shifting gears and bringing home the bacon from different jobs, but we are no where near what we were 10 years ago in terms of disposable income.  I do believe we need to combine shows once again, midgets and sprints.  PR in California for these shows are subpar, and I know advertising is expensive, but it's all in the advertising.  Remember the CRA days when you had board/member meetings where everyone could air their ideas and concerns?  Does USAC allow that opportunity?  Not that I'm aware of.  Basically the car owners and drivers are 'paying the bills' so to speak in the 'business' of sprint car racing and they should have a voice, every month.  Some of these sprint car associations run their groups like dictatorships...do what you are told, don't ask questions.  Running these shows is time consuming and expensive I know, but lets run it like a democracy.  But those of us who love racing will do what it takes to race no matter what....after you feed the family and pay the mortgage of course!!!

This has torched off some interesting disscussion LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is all good ....

The above Comments are satire & for entertainment
purposes only

I enjoyed what I guess were the good times of 410 racing at Ascot with the California Racing Association when Don Peabody and later Gary Sokola (the "benevolent dictator") ran the show.  There were always enough sprint cars to require the running of a consolation race.

Times have changed and the economy is still extremely bad.  

We've lost tracks like Manzanita where I used to try to make it to the 410 races when the west coast guys traveled there for a CRA or SCRA show.

Now my closest no-wing sprint car races are at in Casa Grande although they're 360s.  I'm an above knee amputee so am somewhate limited even though I have a prosthetic leg that cost about as much as it would to put together a mid-level sprint car without support equipment.  I use an electric mobility scooter to get around.  Unfortunately the rest room at the Casa Grande track has steps down to it and I haven't figured out a way to navigate those with the scooter although if I tried and someone filmed it I'm sure I'd end up on You Tube  I suppose that I could make the drive up and back from Tucson for a 360 show (an entirely manageable drive); however, I haven't taken the opportunity to scout out a friendly bush that I could use to relieve my bladder.

Admittedly the 410s make an occasional appearance at Canyon Raceway but that's a far piece from Tucson for me to drive up and back in one night.  In addition, unless there's been a quantum improvement in the facility since I last attended a race there it's an impossibility as once again I'd need to find a friendly bush to use for a bathroom since I couldn't navigate a porta potty.

Guess I'll just have to close my eyes and remember the good old days at Ascot -- Dean Thompson, Bubby Jones, John Redican, Jimmy Oskie, Brad Noffsinger, Walt Kennedy and the other great drivers I was privileged to be able to watch.  Thanks to Bruce Brommie, the Kazarian Brothers, Jack Kindoll, Kathy Simpson and the other drivers who skimped on personal expenses and fielded the great 410 sprint cars I watched for those many years.

As for sprint cars, I'm just hoping that the USAC 360s are booked into the Tucson International Raceway for a couple of races next year.  There's a hill overlooking the fourth turn where I can park the electric mobility scooter and the restroom is very accessible to me.

Last but not least, I travel to and from races when I go with the electric mobility scooter in the back of my Toyota Tacoma pickup.  I have never had a problem asking and getting other race fans to unload the scooter for me before races and load it back up afterwards.  There are a tremendous number off nice people in the ranks of racing fans.

Tucson Osty

"So lets cure low car counts that are caused mostly by costs by making car owners spend even more on different engines?"

We can assert our opinions, but the facts are that... There's a =considerable= market for 410 engines in northern California, as well as the midwest. (Ask Brent.) I doubt that the current owners would have that much difficulty offing their 410s. Likewise, there's an even bigger exchange for 360 IB's on the coast (including AZ), as well as Indiana, etc. If rev limiters are too expensive for the 410 "transition" period, go to intake chokers like SNOOSECAR. 

AMEN Doug

It is a differant culture now! When I was a kid all I thought about was racing and cars and motorcycles. I got that from my dad and I passed that on to my son too. Now Onto my grandsons. My brother  did the same. But for the most part, kids now don't HOTROD their cars like we did. Sure there are some that do with their rice rockets but not like we did, real nuts and bolts work. I know of a ton of kids that don't even think about getting drivers licenses until the reach their 20's. I am in the performance industry and I see it everyday. Look at the fan base at all of racing not just our series, it's not the 16 to 25 year olds for the most part but probably more like 45 to 65 year olds. Sure their are kids in the pits driving in the lower classes but the only kids in the stands are some how connected to the teams. We have to as a sport, somehow cone t with the youth, not sure how!

www.codyswansonmotorsports.com

Kirk Swanson hit a big nail on the head....look at the crowds at major events like Nascar and Indy, even in Indianapolis at the heart of dirt track racing, crowds are down at the local tracks, again not just because of the economy, but the majority younger generations just have different interests and more activities to pick from than we did during our youth.  Sure kids from a racing family will be more likely to attend or participate in midget or sprint events, but those who have not grown up with the sport will more than likely involve themselves in other sports.   Many tween-20-30-somethings I know have no idea what a midget or sprint car is.  It's a complicated fix....exposing the sport to more people is costly (advertising), participating is costly.  I think it will take a major player to bring our sport into the living rooms or the electronic device world of our younger generation.  All the new organizations that have come to fruition over the last few years have great ideas and serve a niche for a particular racer, but we are spread too thin as a sport.  Can you imagine having 10 Grand Pix associations or football leagues or hockey leagues?  It dilutes the sport of participants and spectators.  It's time to pool our resources and unite nationally, but it's probably just a pipe dream.

doug when scotty started i tried very hard to get him to start with a basic 360 class and grow from there . what i am all for is to see local track racing , not racing that travels from track to track , we have that and only so many can do that . what i want is to see track champions . local track series .  we get our series champion in west coast and usac cra , and we all know who can afford to follow those series , and race for points  . ventura has vra , but due to politics between many drivers and that promoter and or director , they suffer with car count . i wish just like some that ura was still kickin . we gained and lost oss in a season , thats insane . i was happy to know we were going to have 3 tracks close to home . i was going to race perris , oss , and vv . an occasional trip is ok but not 1 or 2 times a month . i have a chioce with our team , have great equiptment and race locally or travel and race with used parts  . it just costs too much to travel . i wish perris could run a 360 track class , we have the cars to support it . victorville needs the same thing . with the economy being what it is and how many tickets sold being key i say bring in a stupid monster truck to bring its crowd to the races . at vv and perris when a monster truck is on the grounds the people fill the seats . i say they will eventully will love open wheel racing , and forget that crazy monster truck . we have to think outside the box sometimes , and now is one of those times .....

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

I agree, to a point, about the novelty act.  I actually pitched that exact concept to Scotty way back when we first started.  The idea of having an intermission show with a Monster Truck and a Jet Blower worked really well in Victorville over the years...and they were fun to announce too!  I don't want to try and speak for Scotty, but basically it was of the opinion at that time that doing stuff like that might do more harm than good for the legitimacy of the sport...that we needed to focus on selling and promoting OUR product, which was "Badass Sprint Cars".  I see both sides. 

I agree with you, that you need to get something in the arena that has an established fan base...that will guarantee fans through the front gate...then hit them with the coolest show they've ever seen.  However, it is hard to justify spending a huge budget on the intermission show when you need to focus time, energy and money on running the "bread & butter" program...especially when you have a shoe-string account.  

Later down the line, several different options were considered as standalone events, but never materialized from a napkin sketch or phone conversation...things like stadium off-road trucks, motorcycle races & motocross events, and other extreme sports.  However, we knew that would really only be a "band-aid" on the situation and possibly keep the tracks open for a while longer, but it woudn't fix the real problems this sport has with the economy.  

Oh well...now I have more time to be a better fan and bring more (young) people to the races!

Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent 

doug there are quite a few low buck monster trucks for hire at rerasonable prices . last monster show at vv had 7000 in 2 shows . last perris fair , standing room only . like i said , sometimes we have to think out of the box . the same ole thing wont always work ...

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

John...I know there are, which is exactly why I was trying to implement that kind of thinking early on.  But when the money ran out, we couldn't get much more than a balloon artist to come out in exchange for a pit pass.  LOL  I hear what your'e saying, believe me.  I wanted to do that, and have some connections to make it happen.  But there were also had a ton of people that promised to bring sponsorship on board that never came through.  Had that happened, I'm sure Scotty would have tried a bunch of different things.  You can only do what you can afford to do.  He tried.  I give him credit for that!

Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent 

lets learn from our mistakes and move forward . unfortunatly ura is gone so lets start working on what it will take to build what  we love so much ..i am going to keep pushing for what i believe will help , start at the bottom and promote local racing  , have local track champions , and work twards having supporting classes that will eventully turn into 410 teams . nascar and nhra know that without sportsman racers the pro classes cant exist .. its that simple .. 410 racing is our pro class , we need to learn how to feed it , and give the up and comers a place to transition from .

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

It's simple, there are not very many car owners anymore. When I started sprint car racing in 1996 SCRA paid you $400 to start a main event and $4000 to win. There was no $35 enrty and pit passes were no more than $25. Were lucky to get half of that purse these days. If the promoters think your going to continue to live off the back gate, their mistaken. You have to put more people in the seats by promoting so you can pay the racers to show up. Otherwise it's going to continue to decline and we will all be going up north to race with a wing.

Doug.

Short memory indeed...

You talk about scheduling on "Dark" nights then talk about Midgets not showing up. With all respect, pretty much EVERY URA show was up against a 360 Sprint car show and a Midget show elsewhere IF NOT BOTH. Take the first four dates on your URA Schedule, as released AFTER "all local shows" had released theirs.

April 27. URA Sprints / Midgets | VRA Midgets | Bakersfield West Coast 360

May 11.  URA Sprints / Midgets | VRA Sprints | USAC Midgets Bakersfield | Hanford West Coast 360

June 1. URA Sprints / Midgets | VRA Sprints | USAC / BCRA Midgets Placerville

June 29.  URA Sprints / Midgets | USAC Midgets Visalia

And don't anybody tell me that 360 and 410 are different and neither running on the same night effects the other, the Ovals proved how much car count depends on attracting the 360 teams.

Solve the condition of needing three different engine combos just to run USAC CRA, Western Classic , WC 360s on the west coast & you cut the cost of running a Sprint Car way down

The feeders were QM/Micros, TQ , Midgets, Sprint Cars in Open Wheel| which is plenty

Spiliting those divisions into subdivisions  has driven the costs up & car counts/fans down

Indy seems to have more fans & cars with most weekly tracks have hardly any engine rules & USAC Nat probably the most restrictive @ 410 c.i. with hardly a 360 division in sight back there

Take a clue from IMCA Modifieds they are breeding like cockroaches LOL  having 300+ cars @ Vegas a couple weeks ago & you can run from Ca to Vt, under the same rules package

There might be a clue in the above examples

In my view the West Coast Open Wheelers need to figure out how to put this back together

This includes Track Owners , Promoters , Car Owners & Fans  cuz all are dependent on each other for Open Wheel Racing to survive & thrive

If all the above can agree that it needs fixing & get to work fixing it , working out the details becomes much easier

The above Comments are satire & for entertainment
purposes only

If you want to increase car counts get off your ass and help sponsor a car each week.  Admission is $25 bucks, give an additional $25 to a team that can afford to make each race!  Do what you can!  I can assure you that not one fan knows how much money these guys spend just to get to the races each week!  There is a reason they are only racing once a month, they cannot afford to race anymore than that!  Some or most of these guys are are not rich!  They do what they can!  The other issue is diehard fans using Sponsored tickets to spectate.  I personally don't agree to that.  You have to use them to bring new fans into the sport not selfishly for yourself!Drivers and car owners need to take on the job of giving their sponsors added exposure to potential new fans!  When Nascar, NHRA and the rest are in town you guys need to set up a couple of show cars in a booth on vendor row and promote your sponsors and sport!  If I were a driver, I'd give away a kids shirt with every adult one sold!  You gotta get the kids to love you and make him a life long fan!  If I were the PAS, I would set up a Drifting competition in the parking lot and give everyone of them guys that attend the event a free tickets to the nights race!

The purses need to be backloaded.

Face it. The guys who show up and run with "no hope" of winning can not make every race if they don't get anything back.

$15k to win is great. But $500 to finish 24th is friggen great for teams who give everything they have just to get to the track... I would be interested to note the draw on something with a much deeper paying purse as a regular occurance vs standard style payouts.

Like everyone, I have seen money races draw small fields. So could just be 85% economy blows and we need to ride it out.

Robert...

I realize that from the outside looking in, scheduling races without conflict appears rather simple.  Afterall, the concept is elementary at best.  however, this February I challenge you to grab a pencil & a calendar.  Print out the track schedules from PAS, Ventura, Santa Maria, El Centro, Bakersfield, Kings, Tulare, Placerville and wherever else you can think of that you consider "local".  Then, print out the schdules of all 5 of USAC's West Coast divisions.  Cross off the dates already scheduled by others on your calendar.  Now, pretend you're a new Promoter at 2 different fairgrounds.  Look up their calendar of events on their websites.  Cross them off the calendar too.  Now fill in YOUR dates for events.  Make sure you have at least a couple per month so that you can afford to pay each venue the rent that is due.  And...make sure you don't schedule over anything open wheel...that could be construed as purposefully competing for the entertainment dollar!  What does your overlap-friendly schedule look like?

Scotty wasn't trying to do anything more than give local teams (those South of Kern County) a few more tracks and dates to race at without having the expense of traveling.  I think he did okay at that.  The dates against 360 shows only hurt us...not them...and we knew we had to sacrifice somewhere.  There just isn't that many dates where everything works out perfectly.  

The midget deal...I won't discuss that on here.  The people involved behind the scenes know the truth as to what happened with all of that.  I wasn't privy to all of those discussions.  I only heard one side of the story.  But I do know the "new kid" got trash canned by the upper classmen a bit on that deal.

Like John said...the URA is done...time to move on and work on the future.  I wasn't trying to revive the dead...just pointing out that this is NOT a simple problem to fix.  

Doug Bushey

Passionate Fan / Announcer / Media & Public Relations 
Agent 

you are right here , not enough car owners . thats the reason i am pushing for local track racing , local track champions , racing that regular guys can get involved in and grow . not racing where you have to travel and follow a series .  a guy can run a local team with no difference in what it costs compared to running a competitive hobby stock . some will argue this into the ground but i have been running cars for awhile and you dont have to break the bank every time you roll out a sprint car . some wont do it anyother way . we need places where guys can get their feet wet with 8500 $ cars , yes we know the guys that win will come with great cars and equiptment .

Drama , Controversy , Rivalry 

Doug.

I never said scheduling was simple. But, I imagine the difficulty is compounded by not releasing your schedule until months after the Promoter's meeting and every other track has released their schedules, if not begun racing.

I was responding specifically to your assertation that the URA, and I quote YOUR words. "a full schedule of races during "dark" nights at other local tracks" That statement is simply untrue.

I would be happy to go to the Promoter's meeting and beat my head against the wall trying to co-ordinate a Southern California Sprint Car series and a companion Southern California Senior Sprint Car series with unified car rules and an IMCA style points system where you can race Ventura or Victorville on the same night and gain points towards a California Sprint Car title.