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Topic: UMSS races off of the schedule for the Minnesota Mafia Point Fund
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April 30, 2013 at
05:59:45 PM
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4/30/2013
UMSS races off of the schedule for the Minnesota Mafia Point Fund
With a great amount of disappointment we’re announcing that the Upper Midwest SprintCar Series (UMSS) portion of our schedule is being replaced. The Minnesota Mafia worked for six months trying to create a series of races that would benefit both sprint car fans and the drivers/teams competing in our area. To their credit, Ron Bernhagen of the UMSS and Jon McCorkell of the Jackson Speedway Touring Series (JSTS) worked towards that goal as well. In the end, all parties involved couldn’t find a resolution or a compromise to deal with the different tire rules in each series. Due to not finding a workable solution, the UMSS decided it was in their (and their drivers) best interest to withdraw support. We fully respect their decision and The Minnesota Mafia hopes to still be able to contribute to drivers competing in UMSS races this season. Look for those announcements in the months ahead.
We have replaced the UMSS portion of our schedule with shows at Husets Speedway (3), Rapid Speedway (2) and Jackson Speedway (1). We added shows that don’t conflict with any UMSS races directly. We want to make sure the most number of drivers/teams will be able to participate if they so choose. We will look to add an additional race in the near future to make a total of twelve shows for the Minnesota Mafia Point Fund. We will count a driver/teams top 10 points nights. Drivers/teams will need to run 8 of our shows to be eligible. Nightly race format will dictate all rules. There will be nightly Tough Luck and Hard Charger awards. The same $15,000 will be distributed to the top 15 in points at the end of the season. Full schedule is as follows:
May 18th
Jackson Speedway-Spring Nationals
Jackson, MN
May 31st
Rapid Speedway-360 Sprint Special
Rock Rapids, IA
June 16th
Husets Speedway-Fathers Day Special
Brandon, SD
July 5th
Rapid Speedway-360 Sprint Special
Rock Rapids, IA
July 17th
Sioux Speedway-JSTS Speedweek
Sioux Center, IA
July 18th
Rapid Speedway-JSTS Speedweek
Rock Rapids, IA
July 19th
Fairmont Speedway-JSTS Speedweek
Fairmont, MN
July 20th
Jackson Speedway-JSTS Speedweek
Jackson, MN
August 18th
Husets Speedway-$1000 to win
Brandon, SD
September 2nd
Husets Speedway-Labor Day Special
Brandon, SD
September 28th
Jackson Speedway-Loren Barstad Memorial
Jackson, MN
We hope to see you at a Minnesota Mafia Point Fund race this summer.
"Race Fans Helping Racers"
theminnesotamafia.com
facebook.com/theminnesotamafia
@MinnesotaMafia on Twitter
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May 01, 2013 at
11:06:31 AM
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12/01/2004
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Blows me away to see a group formed to help the racers to get them more money to run for, more races and then they can't come together on a common tire rule or allow each series to run their own tire. If one tire is better than guys have to buy a tire but for the extra money in return and most cases they are going to buy a tire any way. I see UMSS is Hoosier on all 4 tires, SC25 RR and RC1 on LR but can't find what the tire rule is for JSTS as it says TBD in their rule book.
Big thanks to the MN Mafia for the efforts they are doing.
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May 01, 2013 at
12:51:22 PM
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JSTS / Jackson Tire Rule (Per Jon McCorkel on another message board)
RR - Hoosier 105/16-15 Medium (ASCS Tire)
LR - Hoosier RC-1 or D-12. Also, H-12 (which is the Same Rubber, but stiffer sidewall) and the H-15 (Harder Tire) are allowed.
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May 01, 2013 at
11:01:05 PM
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06/02/2008
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Really a bummer that they couldn't get together. Hopefully they will continue to work toward a solution for next year. I was really looking forward to seeing some higher car counts for these shows.
My own thoughts: JSTS should consider at least one more tire option on the RR. Don't know what the UMSS rules are (and I know squat about tires anyway), but can't believe they can be all that different. I think they are also running Hoosiers.
What does Knoxville require for the 360 Nationals? Surely a few guys from both groups will run there.
If the two groups can't come together on tires, what about the MM buying the first tire for one group or the other as part of the payout?
Don't give up on the idea, guys. It's a good one.
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May 03, 2013 at
10:02:37 AM
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As you all know this seems to have hurt the state of sprint car racing in Minnesota. To set the record straight the UMSS agreed with the JSTS and the MN Mafia to this PROPOSED joining only if the few rule differences could be over come. 1. Restrictors: JSTS cars running the UMSS sanctioned races had to run our 1 7/8" restrictors. UMSS cars running JSTS sanction races would follow JSTS engine rules. 2. Weight Rule. Each sanctioning bodies rule would apply at their sanctioned track. Same as the engine rule. 3. Tires. The JSTS and UMSS run the same tires ( OR DID) when this was agreed upon there was no ISUSES 4. All was agreed on However JSTS choose to vacate the last year of there tire contract with Hoosier that allowed them to receive free tires and money . 250.00 per nite plus 1 free right rear for 10 cars per and an additional free left rear tire 15 and over. The UMSS stayed with it because we felt the benefit was greater to or owners. JSTS choose to go to the current ASCS Med 16" right rear., same compound and side wall as the SC 25 but of course 2" narrower and the JSTS would receive a "per car" money supplement. In lies the problem. You can't, with any success, run a 16" tire and an 18" wheel. It is a proven fact there is a difference. The sidewall will become stiffer on the narrow tire- wider wheel scenario loosing a fair amount of side bite.. The JSTS and a few of there supporters argued that the UMSS would have an advantage over them on the SC 25 and therefore refused to let the UMSS run it. This would force the UMSS cars to not only buy their tire, which violate our contract with Hoosier, but forces the UMSS cars to buy wheels not budgeted for. Given that fact plus travel cost, motel rooms, etc. We had no choice but to withdraw, The reward for the UMSS was far less then the cost. The UMSS understands why The MN Mafia choose to support the races of the JSTS. All of the money raised was from that area. Ron and I sent a last proposal to let the shows run " Either OR". Ron's exact words to Shane Phillips were" Lets allow both so the teams that can afford it will buy it and the ones that can't can run what they have", Hoping to hold it together but it was rejected by the JSTS. In the experience of Hoosier there is not much of and advantage. The SC 25 would help a little on a super slick track, The Med. would help a little on a more tacky track. Again this all depends on "WHO" is driving and setting up the car. All the finger pointing in the world will not fix this sprint car racing. The only thing that would is a national 360 tire rule mandating all 360 sprint cars run the same tires. In a democracy how would this law be passed or enforced........ We need sound people making sound decisions for the BETTERMENT of Sprint Car Racing. We all thought this would work..... The JSTS did what they thought was best for them. The Mafia did what they thought was best for Sprint car racing it that area. We of the UMSS will continue to do what we think is best for our Car owner, drivers, promoters, and our loyal fans. Enjoy our " 6 Pack series." 2013 will entertain you. Joe Kouba UMSS Technical Director
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May 03, 2013 at
12:31:02 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: JRKracer on May 03 2013 at 10:02:37 AM
As you all know this seems to have hurt the state of sprint car racing in Minnesota. To set the record straight the UMSS agreed with the JSTS and the MN Mafia to this PROPOSED joining only if the few rule differences could be over come. 1. Restrictors: JSTS cars running the UMSS sanctioned races had to run our 1 7/8" restrictors. UMSS cars running JSTS sanction races would follow JSTS engine rules. 2. Weight Rule. Each sanctioning bodies rule would apply at their sanctioned track. Same as the engine rule. 3. Tires. The JSTS and UMSS run the same tires ( OR DID) when this was agreed upon there was no ISUSES 4. All was agreed on However JSTS choose to vacate the last year of there tire contract with Hoosier that allowed them to receive free tires and money . 250.00 per nite plus 1 free right rear for 10 cars per and an additional free left rear tire 15 and over. The UMSS stayed with it because we felt the benefit was greater to or owners. JSTS choose to go to the current ASCS Med 16" right rear., same compound and side wall as the SC 25 but of course 2" narrower and the JSTS would receive a "per car" money supplement. In lies the problem. You can't, with any success, run a 16" tire and an 18" wheel. It is a proven fact there is a difference. The sidewall will become stiffer on the narrow tire- wider wheel scenario loosing a fair amount of side bite.. The JSTS and a few of there supporters argued that the UMSS would have an advantage over them on the SC 25 and therefore refused to let the UMSS run it. This would force the UMSS cars to not only buy their tire, which violate our contract with Hoosier, but forces the UMSS cars to buy wheels not budgeted for. Given that fact plus travel cost, motel rooms, etc. We had no choice but to withdraw, The reward for the UMSS was far less then the cost. The UMSS understands why The MN Mafia choose to support the races of the JSTS. All of the money raised was from that area. Ron and I sent a last proposal to let the shows run " Either OR". Ron's exact words to Shane Phillips were" Lets allow both so the teams that can afford it will buy it and the ones that can't can run what they have", Hoping to hold it together but it was rejected by the JSTS. In the experience of Hoosier there is not much of and advantage. The SC 25 would help a little on a super slick track, The Med. would help a little on a more tacky track. Again this all depends on "WHO" is driving and setting up the car. All the finger pointing in the world will not fix this sprint car racing. The only thing that would is a national 360 tire rule mandating all 360 sprint cars run the same tires. In a democracy how would this law be passed or enforced........ We need sound people making sound decisions for the BETTERMENT of Sprint Car Racing. We all thought this would work..... The JSTS did what they thought was best for them. The Mafia did what they thought was best for Sprint car racing it that area. We of the UMSS will continue to do what we think is best for our Car owner, drivers, promoters, and our loyal fans. Enjoy our " 6 Pack series." 2013 will entertain you. Joe Kouba UMSS Technical Director
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Joe, as an outsider looking in, it would appear that the ASCS medium tire is run at ove 70% of the 360 races conducted in the US. It would appear that is about as close to a national tire as it gets. Besides all the ASCS, both Knoxville, Jackson, and I90 all run the ASCS medium.
It woud appear that if the UMSS cars want to race anywhere but the UMSS, they will have to purchase either American Racer tires with the MSA and SIA, or ASCS tires for Knoxville, Jackson, and ASCS Midwest.
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May 03, 2013 at
12:48:33 PM
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This message was edited on
May 03, 2013 at
12:49:45 PM by Sprinter 79
Reply to:
Posted By: slideguy on May 03 2013 at 12:31:02 PM
Joe, as an outsider looking in, it would appear that the ASCS medium tire is run at ove 70% of the 360 races conducted in the US. It would appear that is about as close to a national tire as it gets. Besides all the ASCS, both Knoxville, Jackson, and I90 all run the ASCS medium.
It woud appear that if the UMSS cars want to race anywhere but the UMSS, they will have to purchase either American Racer tires with the MSA and SIA, or ASCS tires for Knoxville, Jackson, and ASCS Midwest.
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With the current environment the way that it is, Tire rules are actually hurting the sport, not helping it. There should be a set tire durometer rule in place and let the teams run what they have that meets that durometer rule. There must be a better way. I have 60+ tires that I can not run anywhere. This is getting stupid and it may be the very thing that puts a for sale sign on both of my cars. We are looking to run The UMSS nationals this year and that is going to require that we purchase tires for their races only. It really is a pretty sad state of affairs.
Once again money wins the day. Tire companies are now dictating to clubs, and that is not good for the sport in the least.....................................
Basically I am pointing out slideguy that you are completely correct in your assessment.
Never hit stationary objects!
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May 03, 2013 at
01:05:32 PM
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128
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Reply to:
Posted By: slideguy on May 03 2013 at 12:31:02 PM
Joe, as an outsider looking in, it would appear that the ASCS medium tire is run at ove 70% of the 360 races conducted in the US. It would appear that is about as close to a national tire as it gets. Besides all the ASCS, both Knoxville, Jackson, and I90 all run the ASCS medium.
It woud appear that if the UMSS cars want to race anywhere but the UMSS, they will have to purchase either American Racer tires with the MSA and SIA, or ASCS tires for Knoxville, Jackson, and ASCS Midwest.
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Slideguy. You and many other people have a valid point. The UMSS is in the last year of our current contract. I will, close to the end of our season, be looking at our options with Hoosier and American Racer. Hartford SD and Grand Forks will as well. The medium is a good choice but again wheels will have to be purchased. This will be discussed in our fall meeting with our owners and drivers as well as the proposals from Hoosier and American Racer. We have only the best interest of Sprint car racing around the Twin Cities in mind, Fans , owners , and Promoters alike.
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May 03, 2013 at
05:29:57 PM
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There shouldn't be any finger pointing going on in this situation. These are the points that we think matter:
1. To the credit of everyone involved, all parties came to the table last fall looking to do something that would benefit the TEAMS and DRIVERS that make message boards like this exist.
2. Both the UMSS and JSTS made concessions regarding scheduling conflicts so participation would be as easy as possible for the TEAMS and DRIVERS. As well as fill in the gaps in the regional schedule so fans would have a bunch of quality shows to attend through out the summer.
3. Everyone agreed that the sanctioning body holding the race would dictate the motor rules. Tires weren't an issue as both series had similar tire contracts, etc. when we originally agreed to the framework of this "series".
4. The JSTS did what it thought was in the best interest of their DRIVERS and TEAMS in then switching to the 16" tire. They did so after considering input from their teams. The UMSS kept their tire for the same reasons.
5. This brought up a situation that required both parties to find a workable solution that was in the best interest of the DRIVERS and TEAMS they were representing. The Mafia tried to facilitate a compromise.
6. Because of differing opinions on cost of participation(new rim or not, the Mafia raised a considerable amount of bonus money to defray actual cost of tires for UMSS cars at Speedweeks to the point we didn't think it was an issue) and performance of the tire a resolution couldn't be reached. Hoosier was on board with whatever compromise was reached, they saw the benefit in what the "series" was meant to be. The UMSS decided it was in the best interest of the TEAMS and DRIVERS it represents to withdraw their support.
7. This forced us to reschedule the UMSS portion of our schedule. We put together a new schedule with the enthusiastic support of Husets Speedway and Rapid Speedway to go along with the already scheduled JSTS shows. We think the tire rules at the participating tracks allows the greatest number of DRIVERS and TEAMS to participate give our geography and the commonality of the rules.
8. We scheduled races as to not directly conflict with any scheduled UMSS races. We want to give DRIVERS and TEAMS the best opportunity to compete if they so choose. We also respect the UMSS and what it has done for racing since it's inception and won't, to the best of our ability, do anything to step on their toes. We appreciate the DRIVERS and TEAMS who race with them. They are a fun group and true racers and we hope to put some extra money in their pockets this year regardless of the present circumstance.
9. We came to Ron Bernhagen and Jon McCorkell this fall with an idea we thought could really benefit the DRIVERS and TEAMS we love to watch as well as other fans like us. We're extremely disappointed in all parties involved, ourselves included, that we let circumstances prevent us from "seeing the forest from the trees", so they say. There was a solution to be found but not the willingness to get it done. That being said, we move on.
10. Don't point fingers. All parties went down this road with good intentions. As disappointing as this is, we are moving in the right direction. With a common tire rule going forward we have laid the framework for cooperation in the future. We all want the same thing...for our sport to flourish. The Minnesota Mafia will continue to encourage and try to facilitate that happening.
11. We capitalized DRIVERS and TEAMS throughout this message to emphasize why all of us are reading this and why the Mafia was formed, to support the people who make our sport what it is....THE RACERS!
12. Go to UMSS races. Go to JSTS races. Go to Mafia races. Go to your local track(if they have sprints). SUPPORT SPRINT CAR RACING!
We're sorry for being long winded. We hope this clarified things. We're open to answering any questions. Thanks for taking the time to read this whole boring rant. See ya at the races!
Shane Phillips
"Race Fans Helping Racers"
theminnesotamafia.com
facebook.com/theminnesotamafia
@MinnesotaMafia on Twitter
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May 03, 2013 at
05:57:23 PM
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This message was edited on
May 03, 2013 at
06:03:33 PM by ajlusk93
Reply to:
Posted By: JRKracer on May 03 2013 at 01:05:32 PM
Slideguy. You and many other people have a valid point. The UMSS is in the last year of our current contract. I will, close to the end of our season, be looking at our options with Hoosier and American Racer. Hartford SD and Grand Forks will as well. The medium is a good choice but again wheels will have to be purchased. This will be discussed in our fall meeting with our owners and drivers as well as the proposals from Hoosier and American Racer. We have only the best interest of Sprint car racing around the Twin Cities in mind, Fans , owners , and Promoters alike.
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Joe I see you keep posting about "buying new wheels" nobody has to buy new wheels to run the Medium.. We are still running the same rims (17in.) that we ran last year. The other teams I have talked to in the area are using the same rims for the new tire.
I do love racing with the UMSS and we will race with you guys as much as
we can! your series is a lot of fun, just wish things could've worked
out and made this series go.
@MinnesotaMafia Race fans helping racers
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