Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

Thats what I gathered about this. We had our car set up for dry slick they new it was gonna be slick, slick.

yeah but had they known it was going to be BLACK ICE they probably would've put the chains on the tires. I know I would have, I don't think it says in the rules you can't add chains to your Hoosiers.

"They're steering them sum bi***es with their right 
foot!"

I think it all came down to who had there cars set up right, and who had the most patience. I have paid money to go race and watch races on black dry tracks! Its great to know that when ya look at the people sitting down from ya, their faces are as dirty as yours. Have had many of times where we took our glasses off and had racoon eyes from the dirt! THATS RACING! Was always told not to bitch about the track, everyone has the option to go somewhere else, if your there its because you choose so. Everyone has to drive on the same track sloppy,Dry, tacky, it all comes down to who figures it out and who dont.

Traci Cox Barker

Mikeypoo?

Can't you just ask a question? What is with all this name calling on here? Does it help you get your point across?

To answer your question...yes we and " I" watched the track very carefully. everyone was. Stab samples were made, The adjustments were being done.

Well......bobby_springer..one mans willingness not to be bullied off a thread, becomes another mans rant! So if you want to bully, go ahead...it only shows you don' tagain have any confidence in what your writing so you try to distract and spin it out of context with insults and implied accusations and backwoods provocation.

My point has been smeared all over the place, so let me make it clear.....once again!

#1. Only one of the Issues or Points was the " Black Ice". There were other issues addressed. Please read the Topic agian, and try not to get tunnel vision and lock on one issue.

#2. The LS track commonly isn't raced on a Dry Slick surface. The key word here is commonly. (well at least not consistently for the last 3 years or so) ( But sure there were times it was)

#3. Last season's weather was very wet, so were track conditions. This seasons track conditions were kept very wet by the operators.

#4. Car counts have been low, as have fan count. Track didn't dry out easy or fast, if at all.

#5. No LS regular had any reason to expect that Lanny WOULDn'T water the track. ( he has been doing it all season and seasons before)

#6. No LS regular had any reason to believe that Lanny WOULDn'T prep and water the track between Friday and Saturday night races. ( most expected the track to be worked between those nights, why wouldn't he, he's done it before many many times.

#7. No one expected these conditions, so depending on your level of track awareness, you set your car up for what you knew, what you expected, and how you drove.

#8. The officials were running such a fast paced set of races, that it was difficult to keep up with car preparation and maintain surveillance on changing track conditions, especially since that level of track condition wasn't expected til late in the night. ( No matter the car count, it was expected that Lanny would water the track, so dry conditions were not expected till later.)

#9. Cross weight on Tacky vs Dry is easy for some and not so easy for other series. So spring rate and Hillbilly set ups were in constant flux. Rear bite vs Sidebite were battles being fought in some bits. Drivers side weight vs F/L bite. Tire roll out vs Tire pressure. Tire compound vs scuffed versions. All theses thing changed dramatically when Lanny didn't water the track at the VERY short lived intermission, and went back to rush racing. There just wasn't enough time for some crews to make the needed changes even if they knew what adjustments needed to be made once the track instantly changed is surface moisture content. The track conditions just weren't expected, and caught some by surprise.

#10. The dry cap conditions caused race cars to spin out on turns more often than we were used to seeing and being involved in. I know its normal at other tracks !! It wasn't for LS.!!

#11. The dry cap caused slower speeds, and drivers checking up more often and earlier before and in turns to avoid spinning out, or to avoid striking a car ( or cars) that had spun out in front of them.

#12. The fans came to see what they thought and expected to be fast and challenging races. Especially the Outlaw Supers. From their stand point and mine those races did not take place at least on the last half of the night. And the rule, not the exception was flying the yellow every two laps, and the ( 5 Lap Shuffel) re-starts were just not called for, had each car had a radio from Lanny. Sorry, but from the Cash Stands, I mean the Grand Stands, it wasn't that much better than a normal weekly show in the season. ( Again it wasn't the drivers or cars fault...so catch your breath and count to ten !!)

#13......<<<<< unlucky

#14. It was organized chaos at best.....and the focus was on keeping the cars going on the track, incidents in the pit immediately ended, and ignoring the LS locals and coddling long haulers and invittees who WERE expecting a dry slick Track which track operators knew in advance was their preferred surface.

I'm sue I left much more out, but I think my point is clear. Helen I dont care one darn bit if Lanny bars my ass from his track. I've been coming to LS all my life, if he wants to chase off drivers and fans that have supported this track and his famiely threw thick and thin, then I'm gone. If he dont change his operation, it wont be there much longer anyway!

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Mike, I was in no way refering to you as a racer.... I don't do that.... I was stating from our experiance as a track workers stand point..... their are drivers that other tracks hate to see come to their tracks because of the constant complaining and agressive behavior toward the track.... all tracks no matter where you go have 2 postures toward the drivers that TRAVEL... not the local everyweek guys.....either its glad to see you again..... OR OMG their back be ready for the BS.

Then the local Drivers point of view... OMG either our stuffs going to get torn up because they are here.... or go over and shake hands and get welcomed back.We as a race team work hard to be the ones welcomed back.... And Love going to Waco every year just to see and visit with our friends and fellow drivers that we have meet threw the years.... Thats why we drive in the Sports Mod Class the rules are mainly the same everwhere you go... some with a few exceptions but mostly the same.

I can attest to the fact that Lawton was graded, worked and watered on Saturday morning as can quite a few others that stayed at the track..... They started working on the track at 7:00 in the morning... it woke everyone up, the drivers that stayed walked down and watched them work the track and disscussed with each other how the wind was going to effect the conditions of the track that evening even if they watered all day long it was and did go dry.... it was drying as they watered it.... they stayed on it all day long .....

So I guess the out of town drivers had a heads up because they saw the problem first hand... it didn't matter how wet it was under the surface it wasn't going to come to the top.... period the wind dried the top surface as fast as they could water it..... the track wasn't going to be real smooth either because the under layer was very wet...

You can't do anything about Mother Nature

I actually love dry tracks and knew it was going to be dry and I still missed the setup but still had alot of fun watching the races and the drama in the pits.

Wow!

Very good points and good information. You do know your stuff.

Boy are you so very right about pulling up from out of town !! LOL

I didn't take any offense, I just wanted to re-enforce my point as it was getting completely blurred again.

Didn't know some of those things! Glad to know they worked the track between friday and saturday. That supports that LS locals expected it to have been worked.

Yeah,,,,maybe you guys had some inside info from staying there overnight. Dont know how much advantage some gained from sitting around and watching clay absorb water all day.....LOL....but maybe it was enough to get a second here or there!! LOL

The wind? Yes and no. ( Do you know OKCFan12? ) I firmly know that wind plays a major role in drying a static track surface. But what part wind plays on a dynamic track as the top few hundreths of a inch are scuffed off every lap by racers to expose a fresh moisture saturated layer of clay for the guy following to roll on, as this occures over and over by each car and each succeeding lap, there is a slight tacky track situation, no matter how massive or minimal the water saturation is, or how much rubber is mixed in, it is there, if water has been put down. At LS that night the dry cap was allowed to develope due to the lack of not watering the track during intermission, ( A long time practice at LS when this type of thing is starting to occure or is occuring), and you dont want it to. LS had the histoprical practice of keeping the track moist as possible up to the start of A mains. If it was ASCS night then the track was worked and watered during a longer intermission. This track was allowed to go Slick. Read my first post. Lanny was asked about watering the track and about filling the water truck, it appears that no action was taken and the track went dry even when they knew it was going to cap over and go slick, no action was taken. That is my point on that one issue among other issues raised in the original post.

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Your right.....! It did. But that doesn't lessen the points I raised.

Dirt dont bother us. Dust either, "Black Ice" is no problem.....read my posts before ya pass judgement, that wasn't the issue.

You were told never to Bitch about a track! Okay, do what your told. Me on the other hand dont roll over that easy, being told not to do something makes me want to know why not?

I have options all over the place as do you and everybody else. That dont mean we have to take advantage of them because everyone else is afraid to stress an issue. One that I believe in and express some feedback that may or may not be agreeable with everyone.

Again you are right, everyone drives on the same track. But I believe, some had an advantage over others in what to expect and and what was really figured out in advance. That is partly why I believe the water truck went empty, was never re-filled, and when asked about it, was never rolled at intermission. I believe there was a track preference put in place for that particular show, and most local LS teams were left out of the loop.

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

It's not the track's job to tell you what the surface will be like. That's your job to find out. You could see dry spots towards the end of the first b. It's dirt track racing, if you don't watch the track all night you won't be fast. Did Lanny not tell you what line to run either?

Wow, and this thread isn't even getting out of hand - I don't think. Don't know cause too much for me to read and plus this topic really doesn't interest me.

Oh well, if something is wrong then I am sure I will be told about it.....

Carry on MATES!!!!

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

Enid Speedway Park uses Texas Restarts all year long mand the racing has improved dramatically! Force the guys to race for position, even on a dryslick, and you will always end up with a good show!!!

Way to go ENID SPEEDWAY PARK!!!!!

Jayson Ellis

This person is exactly correct!!!!

No teching in the sportmods is horrible, for that is exactly what keeps this class fair!!! 15 laps for winter nationals, wow, we run 20 laps on a regular sat. nite and would expect at least 30 laps at a winter nationals show! We have raced in many races that were 40 and 50 lap A mains. I sure dont get that part about "over heating"

someone was looking out for someone else, at least that is what it sounds like...

Jayson Ellis

Mike, I do not know OKCfan12, have never had the pleasure of meeting him, just like I've never had the pleasure of meeting you either....Don't even know what class you race in or anything about to many of the Lawton drivers..... we went the first time to Lawton this year because a few guys we knew invited us to come and race..... we had an off week so we decided to take them up on it....and liked the track itself so we came back....

As you can see if you look as to when I joined Tidbits under my real name: I don't post to much on here... I use to just have a screen name other than Just my name now....But changed it because of being slammed because of another group of racers having the same last name and some thinking that My husband was part of that group sense we lived in the same area....it was a living nightmare.

So I ponied up put my real name on here and the trouble went away..... people realized we were not related to that bunch and the drama stopped. I will talk racing all day long because I have been around it all my life in one way or another..... you asked about E-mail I don't care if you e-mail me if you have questions.... We started out in Mini stock and won 5 championships in that class.... went to factory and didn't like it at all 1 year and we were finished way to much Drama ... Elk started running the Sports Mods and after we had talked to other drivers we knew from around the area decided that this would be a good class to be in so we could call friends and meet at a track and race together with equal cars and put the fun back into it. A good limited cost less than a good mini stock... its not the money game in that class either rules are mostly the same anywhere you go because most tracks realized that if you keeep to the norm and tech the crap out of them then you have good side by side racing and it turns into driver ability to adjust to the track conditions... to learn how to read the surface and do your homework on what effects that surface. Also what kinda clay is there on the track, how does it feel when you pick it up and work it in your hands. Never mind. I could go on all day long thats stuff that you have to learn.

Lawton clay is heavy, slick, good for tacky tracks, seals up good, holds moisture good, but takes rubber even when wet, if the top gets sealed and the wind dries the top then no amount of water will penitrate it it just takes more rubber and becomes drier. This is what happened it would not have helped the track to water it at intermission because it was beyond that point by intermission... it was to that point after the first set of sprints ran... was totally sealed up after the Mods were finished... and the Super sprints ... well they got what should have been an Ideal track for them... except the crust was just not quite rubbered enough....We went to a Sprint Car race in Dallas to watch and that track was rubber from top to bottom and it looked like pavement by the time they ran their feature.... And let me tell you they flat flew around that track.... top to bottom racing passing all over that track.... it just took your breath away... this was at Cowtown a few years back they had 60 sprints along with the support classes well over 160 cars there.

Previous post go into deep detail. We were watching the track and were taking steps to read the changing conditions and prepare for them,,,,,nuff said.

Your right, spots were occurring all over the place in the B's, if you read the post, you would know we were expecting a quick water drop at intermission, so reading the track conditions during the B's wasn't a priority at the time...okay?

Why cant ya just ask a question, or make a statement, of post a counter to things without throwing in some kind of hateful derogatory remark. .???

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

The OKCFan12 thing was a reference to the wind issue he raised early in this thread. It was just a funny funny !!

You are very knowledgeable about your dirt,...or clay...., you are right on 99 % of everything you say. It may seem strange, but I check the mud that drops off the cars in the pits as well. I get lots of strange looks...LOL !!

I dont want to, you have so much wisdom to impart, but I must disagree with you on whether or not this particular red clay would have taken the water. I say it would have, because I have seen it do it for many years. I have no way to describe why it does, but maybe some investigation is in the wings.

When you say 'Sealed" are you using it in the same descriptive context as I use " Capped"?

At Eldora, a rubbered track is very fast. It gets a little shine on it, its blacker than midnight in the Carlsbad Caverns, but not dry, but tacky yet firm and dont move around under you, with just a slight dusting here and there to keep everyone honest. But the clay/dirt there is weired, it rubbers up fast, and builds a high slopping cushion early on that seem to get a slight dry cap on it!

Cowtown has a great track and I would love to sit in on those guys when they work that thing!

I'm a tire and set up guy, so tracks and their condition is very important to me. horse power dont mean a thing if you cant translate it into traction and speed. So I take track conditions and how things impact it very seriously. Maybe someday someone will collect samples from all the great tracks around the country, perform analysis on there composition, density, and capacity to hold water, or how fast they let it go etc etc.....I think that would be a very important study and worth its weight in gold to track owners and promoters.....I know I know....there are lots of guys and Aggies who have the answers, but I will hold my opinion on that one.

You are a very smart racer lady. Do you strap in from time to time and run a few roundy rounds for grins?

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

You are exactly correct as well !!

No-tech prior to racing will destroy the series at LS before it ever gets a chance to prove its self to the locals. Southern sport mod rules should be in place for next year, but not going to count on enforcement.

Check the LS web site for the rules.

Like I said before....the track owners had a few limiteds running and they heat up in ten laps, ???

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

Yes Mike I have driven when there is powder puff or mechanics races... grew up watching and learning from some awsome oldies and goodies too.... Buck Cadwell was my hero so I'm telling my age....lol He always had a kind word for the kids. And a big old wham for the other drivers if they crossed him on the track... lived next door to Ed Chill and thought that Chicken George was the funniest guy around when I was growing up... I even fell asleep in the back of Ed's car on more than 1 occassion because he would tell us that our job was to hand him wrenchs which he would dump in the car for us to hand him when he needed them... he couldn't keep us out of his shop...lol if we fell asleep in his car he would be sleeping in the drivers seat in the morning when we woke up.... Buck use to come over there once in awhile and they would talk racing for what seemed forever...Our job at the track at both Enid and Woodward would be to go out to the track surface and get a can of Mud and bring it back to Ed and he would just dump it in his hands and talk to it and us and let us feel it too and would explain what he was looking for... Woodward was a dirt track no clay because they had to share the track with the horse people also so you never knew if they had dumped straw and whatever to keep the track soft for their horses during the week and would pack then water and pack some more to race on the weekend.

Carl Ray Hodge is another great driver that was a crowd pleaser to watch and a personality as big as Dallas...... alot of drivers could learn about working the crowd and the fans... going to the stands and talking to the kids... carrying gum or pictures or candy... and sitting down for just a few min. and making some kids night.... and looking for and talking to some of the retired racers that grace the stands.... thats what brings the fans back every week... lose site of the fan base..... and well everyone knows that story....

Thanks for that post....for a while I didn't think anyone heard that one!

The " LANNY LINE UP" is just placing cars back in the pack when they were really side by side. Giving lead cars more of a lead. By the time the line is single file for the re-start you are 5 or more cars back than you were before the restart.

The TEXAS RE-Start.....is double file with the lead car alone out front ! Right?

And this is working at Enid? Right? Right?

Thanks who ever you are....I feel vindicated !

Instead of Texas Re-Start how about these titles:

"OKIE - DO - OVER" "The 5 Lap Shuffel" - unless they have a radio! Then it takes 1 - lap!

" The Edwards Bump n Run" "Bull Pin Backup"

"LS Stop n Stall" etc etc etc.!!!!!!

MM

Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I 
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as 
we head home to our other lives !

A bully?????? really? In all my 21years i've never been called that one before! LOL! So I guess from now on I will refer to you as "Mr. Burch". That better big fella? However I'm taking back my previous offer from an earlier thread to give you a hug since you called me a bully. Now I dunno how much time it takes you Lawton boys to get stuff done, but I was helping Lee on his car this weekend and we watched the track all night and walked it at intermission. However we did not bring our screw driver and stab the track..... knew we were forgetting something! LOL! We watched all the way up until the race before us was rolling onto the track to make our adjustments just like we do at any track. Just by walking it at intermission you could tell how hard the track was. Watering it never would have done anything except maybe for one or two laps. You can defend yourself all you want, but it was the same track for everyone. You just missed your a$$ on the setup! It happens. Take your lumps and stop blaming the track! Now call me a bully or whatever you want. I don't care. I promise I've been called worse by better looking! Now go ahead and get the last word in or last post or in your case last ten posts. Night night pumpkin i'm goin to bed!

Bobby Springer #25

YES YES YES Mike almost all tracks use the Texas re-start...... But like I said in an earlier post "when in Rome" Elk, Enid, Amarillo Lubbock, etc. all do. But the catch is, you have to be consistant and inforce where that leader can start.... in the Texas re-start you have a certian point that you can start at and you have a certian point that after the leader starts that the other drivers can start passing, usually there is a tire or something in the middle of 3 and another tire marked coming out of 4you strart in 3 and pass in 4 keeps from having a gaggle pile-up in turn 1.

Enid does a good job when it comes to their re-starts....