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Topic: Winter Nationals at LS Turned into Black Ice.
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Page 2 of 5 of 95 replies
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October 06, 2008 at
08:39:36 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Mad Mike Burch...Not Hiding from U on October 05 2008 at 12:59:49 PM
OKCFan12
Wow! it's been so long since you popped your little head up! How you been...."DUDE" ! Its been what an hour since you hunted me down to disagree with me?
I grew up at this Track and DB. I have seen this track in various configurations and conditions and driven everyone of them and know very well how tracks are prepared.
The humidity, Temp, and wind speed can play rolls in track drying, but not in those temps and conditions last night. At best it was a minor factor. The major factor was the moisture in the track, the water balance between firm saturation and sloppy, from wet tacky to dry capped, the latter of which prohibits the migration of deep moisture coming to the surface.
The track needed more water before the race than it got. There was ample opportunity at intermission to drop a few gallons on it, but intermission was cut short due to the " NEED" to quickly run the races ! So that Lanny can shut it all down at 11 or 12 before the City of Lawton yells noise nuisance.
No one is blaming cars or drivers for track conditions! Where did you pull that one out from?
Lanny has stopped races for the ASCS and poured water on every line at least two water tank laps. Then had his push trucks and the water truck pack the track before starting the A Main for ASCS. It makes for fast and safer racing all around.
It has been a long time since I saw and felt such a hard dry cap on LS.
If you like the track that way, then you were in heaven. From a fan view point the Supers just weren't able to put on that wild fast show they are famous for, nor were the Mods. Hell the Stanley and Dunn show was slip sliding away every lap. Tell Dunn the track was in good shape! Tell Jeff Bevielle how great it was! Or try Daniel Cox he will tell you the facts on tracks. Careful,,,but tell Sellers and Little Sellers they had a fast track!
The cushion went away there was no traction, every line was slippery, everything has to slow down to keep from spinning. Drivers dove to the bottom and slowed down to keep from being passed on every turn. So the pace of every race ; slow or fast, was set by the lead cars. Those cars had to slow down, its that simple.
The responsibility for track conditions falls with the track operators.
I know, the Fans Know, and the Drivers know LS could have done many times better at keeping the Track moisture up. You can blame it on your "WIND" if it helps you find something to disagree with me about.
Since you are only as good as your last mistake, I wonder how word of mouth will play out within the racing world. Will just wait an see.
MM at the Track
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Don't you think if he was to stop and put water on the track it would have just ran right off due to it being so slick? If you know so much about racing how bout you open your own track the you can run it, water it, Just like YOU like it!
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October 06, 2008 at
08:58:21 AM
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I thought the track was pretty good both nights and there was a lot of passing both nights. Who would honestly want a lock down heavy track except the people starting on the front row? The lap times are faster on a heavy track but it just gets strung out and no one has an advantage. Both nights people were making moves on the top and bottom. Friday Aaron Anderson came from the twelfth starting spot to a fourth place finish in the limited mods, Saturday Gary Owens had the top working in the two barrel race and was coming to the front until he got tangled up. Tony Anderson and Shawn Brassfield were putting on a hell of a show in the modifieds working the middle and top Saturday until they got together. Then the best show of the weekend was watching little Joe come from flipping on the first lap to put on a hell of a race with Lee Jennings on the last couple laps of the super main. The cream rose to the top like always and the rest made excuses like always. I don't know of very many race car drivers that would pick a heavy track over a slick track. I know i prefer slick. It puts the driver more in control rather than hp!
Bobby Springer #25
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October 06, 2008 at
10:41:35 AM
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Least it wasn't the dust bowl
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October 06, 2008 at
01:24:58 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: OKCFan12 on October 06 2008 at 07:14:16 AM
dude you really are paranoid. it aint a matter of disagreeing with you. keep outdoing yourself.
but yeah i think the wind and it being the 2nd night they ran on it contributed to it a lot. jmo.
good god if it makes you feel any better - i agree with the rest of what you have to say.
but glad to see you'll still stoop to all sorts of BULLSHIT to discredit peoples opinions. sorry i shouldnt say that - i wouldnt want you to stop thinkin that everyone's purpose here is to disagree with you.
funny you tell barrera to stick to the topic at hand - the same thing you couldnt do in the screen names thread. i'm sure you'll ignore that and counter by changing the subject again too.
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DUDE
Blah,blah.....and so on and so forth.
I could care less about your opinion. You just want to mix it up and casue a train wreck, then sit back and get your joillies watchin everyone come look at it.
Hope you have another life to go to after this, cause I must be doing something right, I keep finding that last nerve of yours.
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
02:51:50 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: bobby_springer on October 06 2008 at 08:58:21 AM
I thought the track was pretty good both nights and there was a lot of passing both nights. Who would honestly want a lock down heavy track except the people starting on the front row? The lap times are faster on a heavy track but it just gets strung out and no one has an advantage. Both nights people were making moves on the top and bottom. Friday Aaron Anderson came from the twelfth starting spot to a fourth place finish in the limited mods, Saturday Gary Owens had the top working in the two barrel race and was coming to the front until he got tangled up. Tony Anderson and Shawn Brassfield were putting on a hell of a show in the modifieds working the middle and top Saturday until they got together. Then the best show of the weekend was watching little Joe come from flipping on the first lap to put on a hell of a race with Lee Jennings on the last couple laps of the super main. The cream rose to the top like always and the rest made excuses like always. I don't know of very many race car drivers that would pick a heavy track over a slick track. I know i prefer slick. It puts the driver more in control rather than hp!
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I would. I like heavy Tacky tracks! On the other hand you like the other way! Great, I get my way once in a while and you get it yours the other half the time. Its all dirt racing one way or the other. But I made my point severial times about the dry conditions at LS last Saturday night, but no one stays on topic and seem to get their feeling hurt if you disagree with them. Before you know it the whole point of the thread is lost and the fussing and fighting is on !!
Again I nor anyone else has said the racing was poor, or the drivers didn't do well ! What I said or implied, or ment to imply was the track was abnormally dry, drier than usual for Lawton.
Lanny was asked about the water truck and about getting it filled up again, and I dont know the result of that conversation, but the truck never rolled and the track dried out and capped off. That caused speeds to drop and more spins to occure and I might add that raises some safety concerns in my opinion and some unnessary car damage. Nothing was said about drivers ability, skills, art, or demeanor, nor the cars, the cars HP, set up, Tires, color, number. or direction of travel. Nor was anything said about how good some made the conditions work for them. It is simply my point about the LS track being dry. Stop reading into what is said and read what is wrote.
It was about the expectations of locals and previous visitors to the track who were setting up for the normal LS track conditionns that just didn't manafest themselves.
From a promoters and fan point of view, the lower speeds on the track did not play well in the stands. The driving was good, the lead changes were awsom, but at the end of the day the Speed was what the majority of fans wanted. I know...I know...there are those that disagree. The filled or empty seats will tell the tale in next years race season.
As much as we all might like it to be true, skilled driving and great set ups are not what fills most seats in the Grand Stands. Without a strong fan base, we dont race! We need to get that through our skulls and start acting like racers who want a reasonably good place to race, or start looking for another place to play.
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
03:08:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: SF101 on October 06 2008 at 08:39:36 AM
Don't you think if he was to stop and put water on the track it would have just ran right off due to it being so slick? If you know so much about racing how bout you open your own track the you can run it, water it, Just like YOU like it!
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Nope......it wouldn't all run off !~!~!
Another track in the Lawton Area? I don't know, we can't support the one we have without a huge fight every Saturday night. The Insurance Liability alone is ridiculous and I don't think the City of Lawton would Grandfather in another track economically close enough to the City to allow for it to be financially viable. Thats one of the reasons I would like LS to continue to come back and succeed. As it would be near impossible to re-open or build a new track in our area. And after all.......I can't act like Lanny, that much stress would ruin my love life. Huuuummmmm? Maybe I hit on something.
Anyway.....for now I will water my tomato's and keep an eye out for land, Location Location Location.
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
03:17:55 PM
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You all are also forgetting that, not only did "lil Joe put on a good show of passing in the super sprints but Bobby Smith, Jr. and Shawn Brassfied did as well. Brassfield seemed to have found it first and was in a rythem until something broke while he was in third and making it a three car battle.
No guesspert but I think if more drivers would have stuck with it and taken a chance then they may have been able to put some rubber down in the middle for those two grooves.
Racing was interesting to watch and there was passing. May not have been for the lead but there was passing nonetheless. Sure have seen alot worse track conditions.
David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com
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October 06, 2008 at
03:39:04 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: David Smith Jr on October 06 2008 at 03:17:55 PM
You all are also forgetting that, not only did "lil Joe put on a good show of passing in the super sprints but Bobby Smith, Jr. and Shawn Brassfied did as well. Brassfield seemed to have found it first and was in a rythem until something broke while he was in third and making it a three car battle.
No guesspert but I think if more drivers would have stuck with it and taken a chance then they may have been able to put some rubber down in the middle for those two grooves.
Racing was interesting to watch and there was passing. May not have been for the lead but there was passing nonetheless. Sure have seen alot worse track conditions.
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Yup.....seen much worse tracks........maybe could have found something there in the middle...?
But I will stay with my opinion that for LAWTON.....it was too slick and the anticipated high speeds just couldn't make it. They,the fans, were over all disapointed and Lanny may have to pay the price for not serving the fans their third course of racing last Saturday.....(Nothing againest racers..ok? just the track)
PS it wasn't about other track conditions, it was about LS Winter Nationals Saturday night Oct 4, 2008.
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
03:49:55 PM
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Well Saturday I wasn't racing, just there watching, so that makes me a fan! As a fan it is not enjoyable in my opinion to watch cars get strung out and there be NO passing. I don't care how fast the cars go if there is no passing it is BORING AS HELL! That is why I don't like to watch IRL races very often. They are incredibly fast but don't do very much side by side racing. Back to a point you made though Mikey..... You said something to the affect that the slick track brought up safety concerns????? You also said that the slick track brought slower speeds...... Well slower speeds definitely mean safer, and heavy tracks are a LOT more dangerous than a slick. Heavy tracks mean one grove and difficult to pass. So the passes for the most part are forced and create a lot more wrecks fighting for the one line. But to each is own.... Any monkey can flat foot a racecar on a heavy track. I like to see slicked off tracks with passing.....
Bobby Springer #25
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October 06, 2008 at
05:29:09 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: bobby_springer on October 06 2008 at 03:49:55 PM
Well Saturday I wasn't racing, just there watching, so that makes me a fan! As a fan it is not enjoyable in my opinion to watch cars get strung out and there be NO passing. I don't care how fast the cars go if there is no passing it is BORING AS HELL! That is why I don't like to watch IRL races very often. They are incredibly fast but don't do very much side by side racing. Back to a point you made though Mikey..... You said something to the affect that the slick track brought up safety concerns????? You also said that the slick track brought slower speeds...... Well slower speeds definitely mean safer, and heavy tracks are a LOT more dangerous than a slick. Heavy tracks mean one grove and difficult to pass. So the passes for the most part are forced and create a lot more wrecks fighting for the one line. But to each is own.... Any monkey can flat foot a racecar on a heavy track. I like to see slicked off tracks with passing.....
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Monkey..........? LOL
I've been called alot of things but never a Monkey! Hey that is funny!! Ha Ha LOL LMAO! !!!!!!!!!!
So you have a preference? Then you had a good time? Great, but I wouldn't sit you in the category of PURE FAN. Your a racer first and you saw what you liked! Great !!
I agree, if you ain't passin' you ain't racin'. But I can pass all night on any surface..with enough horses and a good set up...end of story! Forced passes? Who forces you to pass? You pass when you want and chose the best line to do it in. If it ain't safe to pass and you pass away and end up crashed out, then you shouldn't have made that unsafe decision. The track didn't make that decision. Even with the extra speed on tacky track, traction keeps them horses on the track and provides for more control; more control, safer race, of course providing you have your car set up for it. Heavy tracks are harder to work, but any driver worth his weight can make a heavy line work if he works.
An unexpected slicker track than usual caused slower speeds. This caused cars to bunch up in the turns. That caused more confident drivers to try drivin in deeper or go higher or low slow passes in cars that may or may not have been set up for dry slick. Anyway the spins continued to happen on these turns and this is what I was saying caused the un-safe conditions....that would be cars spinning out in front of cars making their moves in turns. Slow or fast, like it or not, it was an unexpected ,unsafe ,unusual, event for Winter Nationals at LS.
So fast racing with no passing is boring as hell, well okay, there is something to say for that. Cars spreading out and just powering around in the same positions for 20 laps can get down right silly, especially when you all ready know who the winner is, unless he breaks down. One possible remedy for some of that, and I mean just some of it, not all of it, would be to stop the single file re-starts and go back to side by side re-starts in all series.
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
05:40:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Mad Mike Burch...Not Hiding from U on October 06 2008 at 05:29:09 PM
Monkey..........? LOL
I've been called alot of things but never a Monkey! Hey that is funny!! Ha Ha LOL LMAO! !!!!!!!!!!
So you have a preference? Then you had a good time? Great, but I wouldn't sit you in the category of PURE FAN. Your a racer first and you saw what you liked! Great !!
I agree, if you ain't passin' you ain't racin'. But I can pass all night on any surface..with enough horses and a good set up...end of story! Forced passes? Who forces you to pass? You pass when you want and chose the best line to do it in. If it ain't safe to pass and you pass away and end up crashed out, then you shouldn't have made that unsafe decision. The track didn't make that decision. Even with the extra speed on tacky track, traction keeps them horses on the track and provides for more control; more control, safer race, of course providing you have your car set up for it. Heavy tracks are harder to work, but any driver worth his weight can make a heavy line work if he works.
An unexpected slicker track than usual caused slower speeds. This caused cars to bunch up in the turns. That caused more confident drivers to try drivin in deeper or go higher or low slow passes in cars that may or may not have been set up for dry slick. Anyway the spins continued to happen on these turns and this is what I was saying caused the un-safe conditions....that would be cars spinning out in front of cars making their moves in turns. Slow or fast, like it or not, it was an unexpected ,unsafe ,unusual, event for Winter Nationals at LS.
So fast racing with no passing is boring as hell, well okay, there is something to say for that. Cars spreading out and just powering around in the same positions for 20 laps can get down right silly, especially when you all ready know who the winner is, unless he breaks down. One possible remedy for some of that, and I mean just some of it, not all of it, would be to stop the single file re-starts and go back to side by side re-starts in all series.
MM
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Double file restarts...Now that's safe! Have you ever had to pay for a destroyed sprint car. Maybe the fendered guys would enjoy the double file restarts (I call them Texas restarts because in Texas they put the leader by himself on the front row and everyone else double file) but I wouldn't. And yeah, I know that you are talking from a "fan" point of view. But I don't think they want yellow after yellow either.
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October 06, 2008 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: Mad Mike Burch...Not Hiding from U on October 06 2008 at 02:51:50 PM
I would. I like heavy Tacky tracks! On the other hand you like the other way! Great, I get my way once in a while and you get it yours the other half the time. Its all dirt racing one way or the other. But I made my point severial times about the dry conditions at LS last Saturday night, but no one stays on topic and seem to get their feeling hurt if you disagree with them. Before you know it the whole point of the thread is lost and the fussing and fighting is on !!
Again I nor anyone else has said the racing was poor, or the drivers didn't do well ! What I said or implied, or ment to imply was the track was abnormally dry, drier than usual for Lawton.
Lanny was asked about the water truck and about getting it filled up again, and I dont know the result of that conversation, but the truck never rolled and the track dried out and capped off. That caused speeds to drop and more spins to occure and I might add that raises some safety concerns in my opinion and some unnessary car damage. Nothing was said about drivers ability, skills, art, or demeanor, nor the cars, the cars HP, set up, Tires, color, number. or direction of travel. Nor was anything said about how good some made the conditions work for them. It is simply my point about the LS track being dry. Stop reading into what is said and read what is wrote.
It was about the expectations of locals and previous visitors to the track who were setting up for the normal LS track conditionns that just didn't manafest themselves.
From a promoters and fan point of view, the lower speeds on the track did not play well in the stands. The driving was good, the lead changes were awsom, but at the end of the day the Speed was what the majority of fans wanted. I know...I know...there are those that disagree. The filled or empty seats will tell the tale in next years race season.
As much as we all might like it to be true, skilled driving and great set ups are not what fills most seats in the Grand Stands. Without a strong fan base, we dont race! We need to get that through our skulls and start acting like racers who want a reasonably good place to race, or start looking for another place to play.
MM
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Dude not sure if you payed much attention to the stands this year but the only time they had a good crowd was on the Fourth of July for the fireworks display other than that it has been slim. The car count was excellent but other than this weekend it has been slim also.
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October 06, 2008 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: cheese21 on October 06 2008 at 05:40:39 PM
Double file restarts...Now that's safe! Have you ever had to pay for a destroyed sprint car. Maybe the fendered guys would enjoy the double file restarts (I call them Texas restarts because in Texas they put the leader by himself on the front row and everyone else double file) but I wouldn't. And yeah, I know that you are talking from a "fan" point of view. But I don't think they want yellow after yellow either.
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Wasn't talking about double file restarts being safe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want to paraphrase me, try to come close. I said double file re-starts would help, and I stressed only help keep the cars from stretching out in one long line and gassing around for 20 laps till the end. NEVER said or implied any safety issues with re-starts!
I like that Idea.....Texas Re-Start......maybe we could call ours the Okie Do-over, or the Edwards Bump and Run, or how about the Lawton 5-lap Shuffle ....? LOL
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
06:47:59 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: milton waddoms on October 06 2008 at 05:50:06 PM
Dude not sure if you payed much attention to the stands this year but the only time they had a good crowd was on the Fourth of July for the fireworks display other than that it has been slim. The car count was excellent but other than this weekend it has been slim also.
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Paid lots of attention to the crowds. It is disappointing at best, I agree.
Something has to give. The Edwards camp can't be happy with this crowd count. But I dont see any thing happening to promote a larger fan base at Lawton. Not that they may not have a plan, just that I dont see what they were waiting on if they did have one.
Yeah.....as a racer and sponsor...I watch the stands. You can bet I visit with the man on things.
But here is a story that might shed lots of light on a traditional problem at LS.
I will get this off my chest.......
There was a LS winter national sportsmanship award we, My Company, was giving away Saturday night. It was our idea, and I wanted to promote my company and good sportsmanship by doing so, and a deserving team could have got a little unexpected bonus for an act of Good Sportsmanship.
But things got started late on my side of the pits, incident after incident in the pits kept things jumping, officials were stressed out, crowd was not showing up early etc etc. When we finally had some teams in the final running for the award, a race deal occured and I approached Lanny about a false-start issue and got the " You People dont understand Racing" treatment. That pissed me off and I put the cash back in my pocket, loaded up and went home. May not return, at least as a raceer/sponsor. Looking at Lake Country, Meeker and Elk City.
As of this post I really dont feel that we will sponsor any more races, events, tees, tokens, cook outs, 4th pace truck.or other celebrations next year. That will include my three Company Nights each summer at LS, that we hold instead of a once a year company picnic. Further we held three sponsorship car shows in our parking lot promoting LS and our cars.
For the most part, LS staff and promoters dont appear to care too much about sponsors, Fans events ,or other special events. or seriously promoting their Track or building a strong relationship with local businesses and fans. Just get out of our way and run the races! Live off the gate!
That my friends is an embedded problem within the organization and this Tracks history and until it changes I dont see any good things on the horizon for my Home Town Track. That makes me sad.... very sad indeed.
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
07:06:37 PM
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This message was edited on
October 06, 2008 at
07:07:21 PM by david_jones
Are you the same guy that used to be Big Mike that was going to kick everyones a** last year for talking about the F2?? Just curious. Thanks.
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October 06, 2008 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: david_jones on October 06 2008 at 07:06:37 PM
Are you the same guy that used to be Big Mike that was going to kick everyones a** last year for talking about the F2?? Just curious. Thanks.
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Not that I am aware of.
I've been Mad Mike for a life time, Mad Mike's Racing or Dirty Mike's Racing in Elk City. There were some times in my younger days when I was called Big Mike...LOL!!!!
Anyway.....its a nick name for Carzy stuff we dared do as kids...taken those chances...and acting like complete idiots........LOL !!~!!!
Whats an F2?
No I dont threaten folks, thats for idiots and track punks. If you come at me for some reason I will take care of business, but I wont go lookin for it. I could care less what one might say about me or think about me. I think that if you see me as a threat to your little Ego, then you got serious problems..and I dont have to do anything to get under your skin but be alive !!." DUDE" LOL.....just haveing some fun...!!!!
MM
Fight to win on the Track, not in the parking lot! I
just love the " Ur # 1. wave " from fellow racers as
we head home to our other lives !
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October 06, 2008 at
07:38:04 PM
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Dude!! There are two points I'd like to make.
1. There is such a thing as running a point into the ground.
2. People respond better to criticism if its not mixed with barely shrouded insults.
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October 06, 2008 at
08:15:38 PM
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Personally I thought the track conditions were great you know tracks like that let the drivers come out out instead of the big motors !!! you know how many times a year can you leave lawton knowing your not gonna break the bank the next day and plug up some poor soles car wash drain lol !!!
Anyways it gives the fans a totally different kind of race to watch instead of what they are used too
besides I dont think any of the regulars really made a showing except for a select few
putting the track conditions aside I think the officiating SUCKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lots of favoritism and lots of lookin the other way if you know what I mean but we wont go there After gettin screwed over in the feature while having a pretty solid run I dont think i will return to that lovely place for quite some time !
winners dont cry when they lose , they go back to the
drawing board and come back for round 2 !
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October 06, 2008 at
08:55:21 PM
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06/03/2008
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1628
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Reply to:
Posted By: JORSKI 73 on October 06 2008 at 08:15:38 PM
Personally I thought the track conditions were great you know tracks like that let the drivers come out out instead of the big motors !!! you know how many times a year can you leave lawton knowing your not gonna break the bank the next day and plug up some poor soles car wash drain lol !!!
Anyways it gives the fans a totally different kind of race to watch instead of what they are used too
besides I dont think any of the regulars really made a showing except for a select few
putting the track conditions aside I think the officiating SUCKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lots of favoritism and lots of lookin the other way if you know what I mean but we wont go there After gettin screwed over in the feature while having a pretty solid run I dont think i will return to that lovely place for quite some time !
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I dont know what your plans are for this weekend but we would love to have you here at Enid. We only had 7 mods last weekend and that did'nt make for a very good show. But where ever you go have fun and good luck to you.
JIMMY MINTER 'AKA'dirtrack234
Yesterday
is history,
tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift. That is
why they call it the present.
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October 06, 2008 at
09:20:54 PM
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07/26/2005
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1176
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Reply to:
Posted By: Mad Mike Burch...Not Hiding from U on October 06 2008 at 06:02:16 PM
Wasn't talking about double file restarts being safe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want to paraphrase me, try to come close. I said double file re-starts would help, and I stressed only help keep the cars from stretching out in one long line and gassing around for 20 laps till the end. NEVER said or implied any safety issues with re-starts!
I like that Idea.....Texas Re-Start......maybe we could call ours the Okie Do-over, or the Edwards Bump and Run, or how about the Lawton 5-lap Shuffle ....? LOL
MM
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You were saying that the dry tracks were "not safe." So I was stayed with your original idea of safety (remember, keep to the subject!) and translated it to your bad restart idea . I bet you and SmithRacer would be best friends with your gleaming personalities.
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