Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Is it the new norm. 18 410s really?. Whats going on. Nice track anx facility with history and very little cars. So sad. 

Kinda the norm this year for a regular show. Ryan Smith is in New York with the Allstars. Zearfoss and McIntyre are Allstar regulars this year. 58 team hasn’t been out so I’m assuming they have folded. A number of cars run only once a weekend, either Lincoln or Port Royal. Car counts at the Grove have been steadily declining over the past few years. 

It's not like they are not paying well either. Tonight's 25 lap feature pay $4080 to win.......

Grove is tough on motors. Some are taking gear out so there not turning them hard. Port has wider corners which doesn't pull the rpm's down as hard. Lincoln is the easiest on the equipment and that's why they usually have higher sprint car counts

Me thinks the Grove's weekly winners purse is one of the best in the country - makes the top 3?

There are many factors. And money is sure one of them - when isn't it?

But the problem with the money argument is it doesn't hold water.

I'm pretty confident that a good motor is 1983-ish was about $18-$20,000. Adjusted for inflation, that's $46-$50,000 -ish today.

And, no one ever got into racing to make money. Some may have in the end - and only through sponsorship - but no one ever started out thinking "I know how to make money, let's go racing". 

I'm sticking with the argument I made in the "Annual Rant 2019 Edition" thread below: It's all about cars and people's passion for cars.

Car guys=race fans. 

Among those fans are (in no particular order) the Bob Wiekerts, Al Hamiltons, Leon Wintermeyers, Gary Beams, Walt Dyers, Roy Morrals - just a few off the top of my head - guys who were fans first, car owners later. Guys whose primary motivation was not the purse, but having their name on the car that won.

I would also argue that there are just as many of those with the means of those listed above - guys who have the money to spend on their "hobby", but cars aren't their hobby.

So, less car guys = less race fans = less Mike Heffners.

And, also,  less car guys = less race fans = less purse.

Williams Grove is still the most prestigious of our local traks.

Motors for there are too expensive. Need to unhook cars.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Too bad it's last in Pa when it comes to faciltiy.  Far behind those of Lincoln, Port Royal and now BAPS.  Time to spend some money on upgrades.

I wont argue that often times people simply want their name associated with a winner but in reality that is based on pride and if you can afford it without compromising actual needs in your life and family I guess it is fine but in a day when we say we are smarter and more civilized and responsible, dpending money you dont have for that reason is bad. I cant blame teams for dropping off when it is their life and finances in hand especially when my disdatisfaction with smaller fields is only based on the decrease in my pleasure.

I shouldn't expect others to risk life and spend money for my enjoyment. If they do I can enjoy but I wont protest when they stop. 

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

"Facilities"? You mean like the 4th turn rest rooms at Lincoln?  Ever use them?  Or more importantly, has your wife ever used them?    

Now Lincoln has a jumbotron that blocks part of the back stretch, reminds me of the mega flagstand at susky that blocks the spectaters view. Obviously the new lincoln management thinks a big TV is a better investment  than modern restroom facilities.

What do propose in the way of upgrading the facilities at Williams Grove? That argument doesn't hold water. The grounds are well maintained, there is minimal or no dust to speak of, the seating with aluminum seats is fine. The bathrooms are adequate and the lighting is above average. I have no problem taking a friend who has never been to a race there for the first time. The racing this season has actually been pretty decent in my opinion. There are very few dirt tracks in the entire country that hold the history and the atmosphere that Williams Grove has, especially on an Outlaw weekend. Too many people on this board are quick to bash one of the most iconic tracks in the country. Keep it up and there will not be a Williams Grove!!!!!

I have to agree on the huge flagstand at BAPS. It is my only knock on the track. Scott Gobrecht has done a tremendous job transforming the old Susquehanna Speedway. At most tracks you try to sit as high as possible......at BAPS I sit down as low as possible so I can see.

I could care less what the facility looks like.  I go for the racing on the track.  In order the best racing in Central PA that host 410 sprinters

1. Lincoln - Simply the best racing in Central PA

2. BAPS - Great racing most of the time

3. Selinsgrove -  To bad the 410's are only there 3 to 4 times a year.

4. Williamsgrove - They have a better track surface than #5.

5. Port Royal - Enough said and it is really sad.....this is a great place to see a race.   

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

And in comes the Port hater, lmao. Who woulda thunk it, lol.  How would you know Strawser, you don't even go there.

And for the idiot who thought I mean bathrooms by saying "facility" let me explain things to you.  Port Royal has by FAR the best package when it comes to seating, bathrooms (just for you), infield, track, food is so-so, and just the overall experience of seeing a race. There isn't a bad seat to be had anywhere at Port. Try that at others, you'll find plenty of bad ones. 

And for the fool using his favorite phrase "doesn't hold water" let me tell you something.  If you think the outdated Williams Grove track is as good as it could be, you clearly don't get out of, say, Mechanicsburg when it comes to seeing a race.  Just because it has history doesn't mean you shouldn't improve the place.  Good lord, I can't believe I'm even arguing this. WG is outdated, period.   Go to BAPS or Port and see where they are now.  They too once looked old and outdated like WG, but they realized that they needed to get with the times.  The crowds reflect it as do the car counts.  And those two things are what matters.

Williams Grove's facility is just fine. It's plenty good enough to host the 3rd biggest sprint car race in the country so how bad can it be? They've spent their money on upgrades incrementally over the years instead of letting it waste away to shit and then pulling it from the dumpster at the last second and resurrecting it like Port did. They have the same lights Port Royal has and they got them back in 1997. The grounds are always clean and well kept, the food stands and bathrooms are pretty old but well maintained and plenty good enough. I hope their car counts improve before we're in danger of losing the most important track in Central PA. If we don't have a strong Williams Grove, the whole Central PA scene will suffer as a result.

FiXXer I couldnt have said it any better myself.....Yes Port & BAPS are nice now and as Posse fans we are fortunate to have five pretty nice tracks (Lincoln & Selinsgrove too) to watch 410 sprint car racing. SteelCity acts like the Grove is a dump....far from it.

32 410’s @ Port Royal tonight!!???

.....and 21 410’s at Lincoln, so collectively there were 53 410’s in action on Saturday night, but only 18 show up @ the Grove for a $4080 to win show. Interesting situation. Wish I had an answer but guessing budgetary and/or not enough motor are at or near the top of the list.

Totally agree with your run down on this one.  The only good surface at the slow palace is when it rains during the show.

That was the exact same thought when I read the post about the Grove having the worst facility. Those bathrooms at Lincoln make the Civil War prison camp at Andersonville (Ga.) look good.