Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Just watching Winged Nation on MavTV and hearing their interview today with Brad Doty.   He was asked his opinion on the combination of Donny and Ricky and their domination of our favorite sport.   Many folks on this board don't seem to think Donny is as good as the "big three" of an earlier generation.    What about the opinion of someone who raced against the Big Three?    Doty basically said that he considers the Schatz and Warner combination even better than Karl and Steve.    I think the point he made is valid.    He said that Karl and Steve had everyone beat on equipment and horsepower, where the cars now are very equally matched.    He thinks the equality of the modern cars makes what Donny and Ricky are doing even more special than what the Kinsers did.

I've been around a long time, although I've never driven a car or turned a wrench on one.    What Doty says makes a lot of sense to me.    I was thinking this was for the past few years anyway and I'm sure there are others.   What does everyone else think?   Please, just a pleasant discussion here and let's not let this degrade into something else!   

I agree with you.   I think the same thing could be said about Jimmie Johnson versus Richard Petty.   

He has a good point. It would be so cool to see Ricky with a rule book from the 80s. Karl had to beat Sammy, Wolfgang and Luna's Ford not Sweet, Graval and Roth's generic stuff though. Hard to compare. 

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

I agree and have made a similar point regarding HOF legends.  Many legends of the sport didn't come from money but four a way to get their foot in the door.  Sprint Cars in the 50s and 60s never turned a lap as today's 305s.  Would legends of that era who were known for their toughness and towered over today's fly weight drivers?  Without money in this era of family owned teams would they even have gotten their foot in the door?  Interesting questions.

Stan Meissner

Phone butchers another post.

Stan Meissner

I think so too on Jimmie Johnson.   Not a big Johnson fan, but I kind of hope he wins #8 just to hear the whining from the Earnhardt fans.   

True that, it is hard to compare.   Different eras, different technology, tires, etc.    Interesting to hear an opinion from someone who competed against Sammy, Steve, and Doug though.   At the 2015 Nationals, I got to meet Deuce Turrill and his wife after the Thursday night feature and talked to them for about 10 minutes.   I should have asked him his opinion on Donny and Ricky.    

I think for sure Sammy and Doug and some others would have made it today because they were able to do so much from the ground up.....from building cars to race set up. Several HoF drivers had those abilities. I'm not so sure about many in todays group of drivers having that. Also, and in particular Sammy at age 61, there are drivers from earlier eras that have proven they can still keep pace with todays drivers. I think that the drivers from the earlier years had to actually drive more than the drivers today. Track conditions, day and night racing and technology were not as advanced. Those that reached the top in their eras all had the feel and driver instincts that it takes, and I don't think that has become more difficult to have with todays speeds. In fact, I think in many ways it has become easier. The key in all eras is that it still takes a top driver and a top mechanic/crew chief to reach and stay at the top. And the longer that combination stays together, the more they will dominate, especially if other drivers are continually moving around. In Steve Kinser's era, Sammy and Doug and a few others moved around too much to be real threats every year. In Schatz's era pretty much the same thing has happened. In my opinion, the best of the best from all eras are just that.....the best! And they would have put on one hell of a show racing one another!

Prisoners of the moment is what Brad is doing.

Schatz has no equals in today's woo who can consistently beat him like Sammy and Steve had and his weakness is he can't do it without Ricky where Ricky can probably win without schatz IMO . Schats is always racing himself cause he don't have a equal period......  let a young Steve or Sammy or Doug for that matter race against today's woo and the result would be better or the same as schatz and if you don't know that then you don't know sprint cars. Stop proclaiming schatz and being prisoners of the moment Brad Doty. Right out of the gate Sammy, Steve and Doug were winning in woo..... rewind the clock when schatz started and raced a mark kinder Sammy and steve when they had a little left in the tank and unless your blind (schatz couldn't hit his ass against them could he)???? Check tape and respond after you see it..... schatz magically got good when the talent ran out folks. Argue it and down me and say what you want butt it's the truth... Brad doty isn't qualified to tell us about schats now and yesteryear with Steve and Sammy and Doug cause 1 he hasn't raced schatz and two all Sammy ,Steve and Doug did was beat his ass so how dare he compare cause he can't period

Sorry for the poor grammar but that's it

I'll always have a hard time comparing Schatz to Kinser because of Jason Meyers.  I think the fans were robbed of the next great Steve/Sammy duel when Meyers retired.  Meyers wins the championship two years in a row... then quits.  Therefore, I wont ever fully be able to guage how great Schatz truly is. 

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

Donny Schatz is one of the best when it comes to taking care of his equiptment and racing clean.The equiptment is so close that there is someting that makes it happen and Ricky is probably it.There are several teams that if they can start in front of Schatz they have a chance to win.The days of inovation are gone.Thats where Karl ,Lenard and Trostle had an edge at one time.There are many good crew chiefs and drivers and having an owner with deep pockets or sponsors that are willing to step up is a big help.Different era!

What Donny/Ricky is doing is amazing and I'm not a Schatz fan. Different era and so forth, but to win like they are in this day & age of all things being equal is unquestioned. I guess old habits diehard and I still look at the big three as that - the big three. IMO, I will always look at Kinser & Wolfgang (especially the #29 & #8D) as the best of the best (not a Sammy fan but he is there too).

Probably a valid point on Meyers.   If I remember right, didn't that team build their own chassis and motors?    

That's some strong shit you had in the pipe you took a big hit off before you typed that one! I would take any of the drivers that have finished behind Schatz the last 5 or more years to compare him to before a "retired" Jason Meyers. 

Your reply to my statement doesn't make any sense, but ok...

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

Let's pretend for a minute that Kyle Larson raced WoO instead of nascar (lowercase on purpose). He'd probably be in his 6th or 7th season right now. And probably would have at least 2-3 championships. Something I think about when this debate comes up.  Which also reminds me....hurry up and make your money Kyle Larson and get your ass back here.

THIS!.....no telling how many WoO chips the silva/larson combo COULD have won by now...they DEF woulda gave donny/ricky a run for there money..could you imagine a larson/rico WoO TEAM!?...schatz would NOT have as many chips as he has right now..for SURE!

“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science 
gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.” 

I'm referring to the 50's and 60's.  I am older than Steve, Sammy and Doug so I don't think of them as being old.

Stan Meissner

I don't know about the motors, but the last few years he ran a KPC chassis built here in Fresno by Steve Kent.