Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Two heat race format. Pill draw for which heat race driver will be competing in. When track is right, run hot laps and timing. Each drivers fast time is official time. Timing is no longer an advantage or disadvamtage because of track condiition. First set of heat races are started heads up fastest cars upfront, with finishing points and passing points awarded. Second set of heat races are started inverted by finishing position of first set of heats. Again finishing position points and passing points are awarded. Scrap the Dash completely and Scrap the LCS on nights when the car count is under 32. Two provisionals might not be a bad deal without a LCS. Feature race is started by points accumulated in the heats, either heads up or maybe an invert of 4 or 6.

Without the traditional time trials, a Dash or a LCS, the lap savings would help to offset the extra laps of the second set of heats which in turn helps to preserve track condition. A "C" Feature would no longer exist on those nights with a large field for the same reason as those nights would have a LCS. As for the extra wear and tear on engines, maybe the high dollar teams will "detune' a bit to avoid that extra threat. I know many of the lower budgeted teams aren't running their engine way out on the edge because of budget constraints and survival. As for keeping track of points, really not a big deal with the technology today. 

May or may not be a solution. But I don't believe under the old format or the new one two things will ever change, boring heat races and right at 75% of A Mains being won from the front row (or two).

Here is what I have saw from the early 80's. About when the Outlaws started.

Heat races have always been follow the leader if on a tacky track, it is also very narrow track to pass on. Time trials are only for the fans that want to say so and so got fast time. Unless you are writing it down with each car you will never know who was, say 6th quick. As people have always said the track slows down during time trials with more than 16 cars. Also passing has got harder and harder as the cars have got more hooked up with the offset big side boards.

I do like what is being done just take it one step farther. Low 8 pill draw cars are heat one, next 8 are heart two, ect. Time trial the cars in order like now. Unless you do the ASCS or NSL format with points. Then again is hard for a fan to keep up or even us in the pits.

Thanks Johnny for the insight. I didn't figure in the additional cost of engine wear over multiple nights and over a season.

I would respectfully disagree on the points and difficulty of fans understanding them being an effect. Tulare Gold Cup, Knoxville Nationals & Chili Bowl all use a points and invert system and they are some of the greatest fan watched and attended events of the year. 

Just one more quick comment for those mentioning how much the track can slow down during qualifying:  World of Outlaw Craftsman Sprint Cars will still run split qualifying (two flights) when the car count is 38 or above.  Drivers time only against other drivers in their flight, not the entire field.  

I agree with you on Tulare (Trophe Cup), Chico (Gold Cup), Knoxville National, Chili Bowl all are two or more nights of qualifying. But Gold Cup is now two (one) night shows. Gold Cup in the 90's was thursday and friday night qualifying, add points run only mains on saturday.

Most of the posting on this thread are about one day or more, one day shows at one track.

Interesting

Mr Gibson, if you wanted a reason for drivers to race harder in the heats all you had to do was award points in the heats at 1/2 the rate they are awarded in the A main.

Also if the non dash cars are lined up by heat race finish in the A not by TT does that mean ALL B main transfers will tag the field now?

That's actually a pretty good idea. I like the idea of earning points every time they're on the track as long as they're not being awarded too many points for qualifying.

Yep, good idea

Actually it will be pretty easy to see how well the new format is working, as the season goes on, by figuring average starting position of winners & comparing it to past years.

Seems to me it has to increase front row winners, we'll see....

Correct: All Last Chance Showdown transfers tag the tail of the A-main now.   As for season points in the heats--I've thought about that as well, but I think it has a drawback in that a local driver NOT racing for season points would have MUCH less to lose by trying a questionable slider, etc during a heat race.  I'd hate to see a couple of incidents like that cost someone a chamnpionship.  (Just my opinion.)

But someone not racing for points is more likely to try a questionable slider in the A main when there is more money to be made. Poor reason for no points in heats. If points are awarded in TT then they should be in heats also.

Just to clarify:  ONLY the top qualifier receives ONE season-championship point in qualifying.  There are no other season points awarded during time trials.  

Not sure how the new system will increase front row main event winners: Dash will still determine A-main line up, and the fastest qualifier now has to work harder to start front row of the dash than in past years (must finish top 2 in his heat) & hope the inversion puts (or keeps) him on the pole.  Under the old system, the fast qualifier could finish top 5 (4 heat program) or top 6 (3 heat prgram) and hope the inversion kept him on the pole.

Now I'm confused.... what inversion are you talking about? I thought it was no more inversions....

The dash still has a inversion draw for starting spot ....

Leave the heat format the same as last year and only top 2 finishers make the dash. That will make the fastest qualifier work to make the dash. Under this new format all the fastest car has to do is not get passed. He does not need to pass 1 car to make the dash. If the dash invert gives him the dash pole then he can start on the pole of the A without passing 1 car all night! THATS EXCITEMENT!!

Thank God for Knoxville's weekly shows (almost always better than the WoO shows anyway) and the NSL. Doubt I'll be making any WoO shows this year.

Brad sweet...2 wins and 1 second and passed 4 cars total in 3 nights to do it! WOW, such exciting racing. Mr Gibson is paid by the WoO so he is going to say this has nothing to do with keeping the WoO teams up front but it does. Just like the split time trials. Can't have a WoO guy go out late and miss the heat invert. OMG, then he would have to PASS a car to make the A main.

I agree! The WoO are looking out for their own plain and simple and that's why the series can't muster more than 10-12 teams. The number one sprint car series in the land should surely be able to do better than that. But wait, the WRG is in the heart of NASCARLAND! Kind of looks familiar doesn't it?  A handful of team owners cars winning nearly all the top money! 

So, because the WoO look out for their own, no one wants to be full time with them (thus making them part of the choosen group). That makes zero sense.

Uh No! What it means is the WoO rules packages favor the ultra rich! Thar's why there is such a paltry number of full time teams, and why those 5-7 drivers take the bulk of the money.

Also let me add this.....the current rules packages and in particular those that make building the ultra high dollar over blown mega engines is the biggest culprit. And the rules are there so that the few ultra rich car owners running the WoO series have an advantage over 97% of the rest of the sprint cars from coast to coast. Let's face it....how many local teams can afford those over priced power plants and the re-builds it takes to keep them fresh? Car counts will continue to diminish if something doesn't change.