Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Sprint Car Unlimited: Eldora GM Roger Slack, Ricky Warner and more

I gotta say, I wasn't real satisfied with Mr. Slacks answer to the Brad Doty raindate question. Unless there is something else going on behind the scenes. 

if Doty wants to move the date, move it. Eldora shouldnt have to schedual around a rain date. LIke Roger said, Eldora helps get fans to the Doty race with buses from St.henry nigh club & other small things. Eldora does their part to help Doty. They shouldn't be restricted schedualing due to a rain date. 

Craig: "There is dirt in my beer"
Tony: "That means your at a real racetrack"

Great interviews. I liked Roger Slack's answer about the racing. He said they need to take them to a wind tunnel to figure something out. That it's not up to the race tracks to make it slick enough to unhook them instead. Nice. Hat's off to Greg Wilson for winning his first Outlaw feature at Eldora on a USED set of tires as well. That would have never happened 10 years ago.

The tires now are $40 cheaper than an open tire and last twice as long. No one is happy with the tracks being the beneficiary of the tire contracts now instead of the racers. The fairest way is just to take reduce the price of the tires instead of giving the tracks $20,000. That has absolutely nothing to do with the product on the track not being better for the sport however. In this case blame the players, not the game.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Not saying tire rules have hurt the product on the track, but it has hurt the wallets of the teams that are participating. Even the low buck guys were getting tire deals, which helped their bottom lines. Now, the bill has increased $35K in some cases according to some of the guys I talked to. That's not good for the sport.

35,000 is two tires a night for 80 shows. $35,000 is your whole season for free. Only a couple of guys would ever get that deal. Regular guys get a few free tire here and there throughout the year.

A soft open tapered tire cost $250 instead of $200. 

http://www.smileysracing.com/shopping/productDetails.aspx?i=3966

$50 more a tire X 2 tires a night X 24 cars X 80 races is $200,000 cheaper.

One tire a night rule instead of going the opposite direction and letting them run a soft R tire too soft to even run in the feature is a joke also.

Should the tracks be getting paid by the tire companies? No. Instead of getting $20,000 or whatever they get for "the point fund" at each track they should just discount everyone's tires down to $185.

Med compound SOD tire. Not allowed to cut up, only grind will last several nights. Every race team's tire bills instantly cut in half instead of a couple of teams getting their tires for free at the EXPENSE of everyone else.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

It's not about cost. It's about not having a tire deal at all and getting tires for nothing. Talking to a slew of smaller teams in the area and around the country, they all said close to the same thing: the higher cost in the past meant nothing because everyone was getting tire deals. One particular driver indicated that he was running American Racer most of the season, ran Hoosier for a couple races and was able to get a deal with them. This myth that tire deals in the past only went to big teams is just that. 

You keep saying the small teams had tire deals too. I'm not sure what small teams you are talking about and what kind of tire deal they had. I was never around any small team that had a tire deal back in the day. I'm thinking the people telling you these stories are using you to get what they are wishing for. Our small team now doesn't mind the deal we race under now as at least when we go to the track we have the same tires as the other teams do . I do like cubic's idea of an acrossed the board price cut without any money going to the speedway, BUT, that money has also kept a couple speedways in exsistence a few extra seasons. So I'm on the fence as far as that goes. I see no changes needed in the current tire situation.

Ahh yes, the good old days when there was a chicken in every pot and everyone got free tires. People have also been complaining about spending $30,000 a year on tires forever also. So which is it? 

Everyone is in agreement. There should be no tire deals for the race tracks. The tires should just be cheaper. A lot cheaper than they were 5 years ago...

Bloomberg:

Futures in technically specified rubber used in the tire industry traded at $1.427 a kilogram in Singapore on Monday, down from a peak of $5.75 in February 2011. Prices may stay at about $1.50 to $1.60 through at least 2020, said Smit, an industry adviser. Futures averaged $2.54 in the past 10 years, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

Goodyear, North America’s largest tiremaker, posted a record segment operating income of $1.7 billion in 2014, up 8 percent from a year earlier, helped by lower raw material costs.

Rubber prices slid 5.5 percent this year, extending four annual losses. China’s economy has cooled as officials rein in local-government debt, crack down on graft and strengthen environmental laws.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Never got them on record for a story, which means there is no reason to lie or release false information. This was just idle chit-chat in the pit area or on the phone when talking about another subject.

Regardless, the price isn't going to change. Why should it? Guys are forced to pay it and tracks/tire company has a monopoly, which is illegal in this country...or at least is supposed to be. (you can't restrict trade or competition according to antitrust laws). It's price fixing. The only way the price can come down is if you have competition, and that isn't present. 

but, the Gov't has already set the precedent that certain things are not governed by those laws.

Example 1:  The NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB - they are EXEMPT to Anti-trust

Example 2:  NASCAR - also exempt from Anti-Trust Laws and they have an EXCLUSIVE Tire Provider in Goodyear (they did have open compeition with Hoosier at one point, but killed it off and won the battle in court as I recall to be able to do so).

Do I think there were soem tire "deals" going on with smaller teams?  Yes, but they weren't saving $35,000 a year compared to today.

As far as the raw material cost listed above by another poster, those prices are PER KILOGRAM of rubber only.  There are a lot more things that go into a tire other than Rubber (and even at that, far less than a kilogram is used per Sprint Car tire).  For arguments sake, let's say they use a Kilogram of rubber per tire, the total difference is like $4.  I'm sure that is offset by Labor, inflation, chemical compounds costing more from manufacturers, shipping costs, etc., etc..

I'm still not beleiving that that small teams had tire deals. I've had idle chit chat too and been around many teams back then and the small terams were not on tire deals.. Maybe a freebie here and there , but not a tire DEAL. They are playing you. LOL.

Then is is very possible that they didn't approach it the right way or look in the right places. 

You are only partially right. In those sports, the draft often becomes the issue of antitrust. However, as we have seen from Eli Manning and Philip Rivers in the NFL, there is a way to break that hold the league has on these players. Hence, another loop hole. In other words, free trade.

That being said, NASCAR is a good example. Can't argue that one. But it doesn't make it right, either.

Tire manufacturers are making more profit than they have in years. We are getting ripped off 15% minimum.

Bloomberg:

Goodyear, North America’s largest tiremaker, posted a record segment operating income of $1.7 billion in 2014, up 8 percent from a year earlier, helped by lower raw material costs. Rubber prices slid 5.5 percent this year, extending four annual losses.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Agreed, it doesn't make it right, but it's a precedent that has been set which allows other organizations to the same.

However, Eli Manning and Philip Rivers  took a  huge chance IMO.  if they get drafted by a team they don't want to play for, that team OWNS their rights.  Until those rights expire or that team trades them to another team for a different pick, cash or both, no other team can make them an offer.

Since they didn't want to play for those teams, those TEAMS traded the rights to them (or the pick) to another team in return for other picks or cash.  So, the Teams and the League still set all the rules.  It could have just as easily backfired and both players gotten $0 for not signing and then would have had to sit a year out of football (or go play in Canada) before those teams rights expired and then taken the chance of being forgotten about or becoming much lower draft picks at a much lower pay rate.  No matter how you slice it, the NFL and the teams still set the rules (in the CBA with the union that those players weren't a part of until they actually signed a contact).