Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I was wondering if I'd get sh&% for wearing a non Posse shirt the 1st nite, so I wore a Path Valley shirt (talk about "hillbilly"! I love the place.) Saw lots of Sammy shirts, so I wore mine the next nite, nobody said a word...

even tho I was rooting for Posse, Sammy's my fave Outlaw & I like the shirt...

I think you just had bad luck & ran into some drunk fools...

As for the "we're the best " attitude, its just like a college or HS football game. People root for the home team... no big deal

Friday's race was teriffic, Saturday pretty good, better than most of the weekly shows I've seen there lately

Funny how everybody has their own perspective... I was talking to a Canadian fan at Yuma this winter & he didn't like Eldora cause he said everybody was drunk....

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

I don't understand what people are thinking when they go overboard and get all hostile with the regional pride. Sprint car racing isn't that big, to the point of we should be shitting on others with similar interests who happen to be from other states/regions. The world isn't as big of a place now. We should be trying to tempt people to travel to our home tracks and sanctioning bodies, making them feel welcome, bring commerce and more fun to our collective hobby. Would you go to Australia and tell them how much they suck and how much better America's drivers are? 

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

This whole board is a jealous joke anymore!! I wear outlaw/ other shirts I've picked up around the country at least once per month at the Grove! and this never happens! Hey folks deal w/ it. The Posse is here to stay! And we are a proud bunch! P.S. Posse fans hold your head high you are great! don't listen to this garbage!!!!

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

Larsonfan. You could not be more wrong. You are what is wrong with these forums. You are obviously the jealous type. Let me ask you one thing. Have you ever been to a race in Central PA?

Larsonfan. You could not be more wrong. You are what is wrong with these forums. You are obviously the jealous type. Let me ask you one thing. Have you ever been to a race in Central PA?